maciek72 | 18 Mar 2014 11:20 a.m. PST |
I'm looking for OOB of Kirby Smith's corps on the day of battle of Perryville. Including his troops in the actual fighting could be an interesting "what if", don't you think ? |
vtsaogames | 18 Mar 2014 1:19 p.m. PST |
Interesting but considering how he stayed away from Bragg, highly unlikely. You could posit that Jeff Davis actually made an executive decision and ordered Smith to report to Bragg
nah. Hmm, dug up my Perryville book, no OB for Smith's army. |
Bill N | 18 Mar 2014 3:51 p.m. PST |
If you can get access to the OR, I recall there were some OBs for Smith's troops in there. The OB for the Battle of Richmond which was fought by part of Smith's command can be found here: link . |
Ryan T | 18 Mar 2014 7:11 p.m. PST |
There is no clear order of battle for Kirby Smith's command at exactly the time of Perryville. The Official Records have an OB for 3 July 62, well before the beginning of the campaign, and for about 31 October 62, about 3 weeks after the battle. The latter is probably the closest to what you want and can be found in the Official Records, Vol. XVI Part 2, pp. 984-985. These two pages can be seen here: link link |
vtsaogames | 18 Mar 2014 8:18 p.m. PST |
That Wikipedia OB has one big problem – it lists Pat Cleburne as CO of one of the divisions until he was wounded. Except he commanded a brigade in Bragg's army at Perryville. The OR links above has Stevenson, McCown and Heth as division COs, which seems more likely. Not that I know all of Cleburne's record. But division CO and then brigade CO of a different army does not make sense. |
Ryan T | 18 Mar 2014 8:52 p.m. PST |
Cleburne and Preston Smith's brigades were transferred to Kirby Smith's army in the summer of 1862. Cleburne was placed in command of a small division comprising these two brigades. He was wounded at Richmond, but was back in the field soon afterwards. Shortly before Perryville the two brigades were returned to their respective divisions in Bragg's army. |
Bill N | 18 Mar 2014 11:08 p.m. PST |
One problem you run into in the Kentucky campaign is that Kirby Smith's organization is a moving target. At the outset of the campaign Bragg loaned a couple of brigades to Kirby Smith that became Cleburne's division. When he launched the invasion Smith had Cleburne's, Heth's and Churchill's divisions with him, and had left Stevenson's division to watch the U.S. forces in Cumberland Gap. Kirby Smith had Churchill and Cleburne's divisions at the battle of Richmond which is consistent with the site I mentioned. Subsequently Cleburne's command returned to Bragg. Then Stevenson moved up, and shortly before Perryville Bragg had sent Wither's division to support Kirby Smith. McCown was originally left behind in East Tennessee and my sources don't mention him as being in Kentucky. FWIW there is an OB for Stevenson's command as of July 1862 in vol. 3 of Battles and Leaders. |
maciek72 | 19 Mar 2014 2:48 a.m. PST |
Many thanks, especially for searching through ORs. |
vtsaogames | 19 Mar 2014 4:55 a.m. PST |
Thank you Ryan, that clears things up. You would think since Smith was loaned units from Bragg's army he would respond by being more cooperative. |
Shagnasty | 19 Mar 2014 9:07 a.m. PST |
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Bill N | 19 Mar 2014 11:26 a.m. PST |
To make things even more complicated maciek72, you might also want to provide for Humphrey Marshall's command from southwest Virginia. I think they were at Lexington Ky, which would have put them close enough to theoretically have joined Bragg. |
John the Greater | 19 Mar 2014 11:37 a.m. PST |
This is a very interesting thread. How is this for a scenario: 1) Davis orders Smith to join Bragg 2) Select two members of your group who despise each other and make one Bragg and the other Smith 3) Tell them that in the case of a Confederate victory only one of them can be declared the winner. 4) Sit back and watch the two guys try to sabotage each other
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vtsaogames | 19 Mar 2014 12:44 p.m. PST |
5) In case of a Confederate defeat, only one will be blamed. |
HistoryPhD | 19 Mar 2014 4:58 p.m. PST |
I believe Cleburne was chosen to reinforce Smith because he and Bragg were embroiled in a squabble and Bragg used the excuse to put distance between Cleburne and himself, not doubt with Davis' urging. |
Ryan T | 19 Mar 2014 6:29 p.m. PST |
I don't think there was a squabble between Bragg and Cleburne. Cleburne and Preston Smith's brigades were transferred to Kirby Smith on 5 August. Several weeks earlier on 27 June McCown's Division (Churchill's and McNair's brigades) had also been sent to reinforce Kirby Smith. Bragg held McCown responsible for the loss of New Madrid and considered him to be unfit and incapable of high command. Thus it was more likely to have been McCown that Bragg was happy to see transferred over to East Tennessee. Although Lee's offensive into Maryland receives the most attention, the Confederate move north into Kentucky was the more ambitious of the two. It attempted to co-ordinate seven different forces from three separate Departments: Bragg, Price, Van Dorn and Breckinridge from Department No. 2, Kirby Smith from the Department of East Tennessee, and Marshall from the Department of Southwestern Virginia. Given all these overlapping jurisdictions, as well as several prickly personalities, it should not be surprising that it ran into major problems. |
vtsaogames | 19 Mar 2014 6:40 p.m. PST |
I was under the impression that Bragg was unaware of problems with Cleburne until Bragg circulated the letter after after Stones River/Murfreesboro saying he would step down if his officers thought it best. Cleburne said he should and that stunned Bragg. Although Bragg certainly sent leaders and troops away because of spats. |
donlowry | 20 Mar 2014 11:22 a.m. PST |
You could posit that Jeff Davis actually made an executive decision
Ha! Like that was gonna happen! |