"RAF Regiment Armoured Car Squadrons (Normandy and beyond)" Topic

I have come across a few accounts of these units supporting the 1st Polish Armoured Division, however (possibly due to my poor googling ability), I cannot find an OOB for these.

cheers
jon

edit – would these be equipped like recce battalions of infantry divisions (27 x humber III, 21x humber II LRC, 54 universal carriers, 12 M5 1/2tracks, 8x6pdr and 6x 3" mortars)

Hi Jon,

I've got the info here somewhere, but it might take a while to find. They generally didn't use heavy armoured cars or any weapons heavier than Brens and 3-inch mortars, though there may have been local exceptions – particularly late in the war, when they tended to be used more as regular recce regiments, taking their place right in the front line.

Humber LRCs and Morris LRCs were the main armoured cars used, with M3A1 Scout Cars (later replaced by C15TA armoured trucks) usually functioning as troop-carriers.

Here you go:

Armoured Car Squadrons had a HQ Flight (composition unknown) and 4x Armoured Car Flights, each with 6x Armoured Cars (Humber LRC, Morris LRC or Otter LRC).

Rifle Squadrons had an HQ Flight, a Support Flight with 4x 3-inch Mortars and 3x Rifle Flights, each with 3x Rifle Sections. These were partially motorised with Jeeps and 15cwt trucks (probably enough MT to transport 1x Flt at a time?). Some 15cwt trucks were replaced by C15TAs. There was 1x Bren per Section and an unknown number of 2-inch Mortars and PIATs (presume one of each per Flight?).

Light AA Squadrons had an HQ Flight and 3x LAA Flights, each with 4x 40mm Bofors.

In Greece, a Rifle Squadron had been re-equipped with 6pdrs, but I've seen no evidence for such heavy weapons in NW Europe.

By the end of the Normandy Campaign there were 4x Armoured Car Sqns, 18x LAA Sqns and 8x Rifle Sqns in Normandy, controlled by 19x Wing HQs and 4x Group HQs. By the end of 1944 Campaign, this had increased to 6x Armoured Car Squadrons, 19x LAA Squadrons and 20x Rifle Squadrons.

Ignore my earlier comment re M3A1 Scout Cars – they were only used as RAF FAC transports and by the occasional RAF Regt Tac HQ.

Some of the LAA sqns had 20 mm Polsten cannons rather than Bofors……

Yes, they were issued with Polstens to replace their earlier Hispanos (a mixture of 20mm and 40mm was used elsewhere in the world), but according to the official history, an urgent requirement was put in for Bofors guns and all the LAA Sqns in NW Europe were fully kitted-out with Bofors before deployment to NW Europe.

quick question, I assume they will be dressed in standard army fatigues, with just shoulder tabs by way of distinction, will they have RAF rank badges or army?

jon

Yes, they used khaki Battledress and undyed webbing, just like the Army. Unlike the 'Two-Winged Master Race', RAF Regiment officers would wear khaki Battledress like the men – they absolutely would not wear their grey-blue No.1 SD Tunics or RAF grey-blue Battledress in the field. All equipment such as helmets were also exactly as for the Army.

'RAF REGIMENT' shoulder-titles were dark blue backing with 'sky' (a sort of pale duck-egg blue/cream shade) embroidery. These were worn by all ranks and the RAF Regiment normally wore these instead of the typical RAF Airmans' shoulder-eagle badges.

NCOs' rank badges could be RAF pattern (sky on dark blue) as above, or Army pattern (cream on khaki). I suspect that the Army pattern was more common in the field.

Note that the RAF Regiment, unlike the RAF generally, had the rank of Lance-Corporal. They also didn't wear the LAC/SAC 'propeller' arm-badges.

Officers' rank badges were as for the RAF – black tape 'rings' on the epaulette-straps, with central pale-blue piping.

Officers' soft headdress was the standard RAF SD cap in grey-blue with black band and grey-blue peak and badge in gold on black backing. Alternatively they could wear forage caps in grey-blue. Privately-tailored grey-blue berets were also in existence, although they weren't authorised for wear at this time.

Gunners' soft headdress was the Army-pattern khaki forage cap.

Here's a nice photo. Apparently taken near Einhoven during the winter of 1944/45, when the RAF Regiment was actively involved in holding and patrolling sections of the front line, to free up Army units for rest and/or countering the Ardennes offensive (although this was clearly posed for the camera):

Note the officer in beret (presumably grey-blue) and greatcoat (RAF grey?).

Note also the use of roundels AND stars on the vehicle-sides. This wasn't very common – roundels were normally only used on the bonnet, as well as front & rear mudguards, while stars would typically be painted on the sides. The roundel on the bonnet would also have a narrow yellow outer ring (half the width of the red and white rings). Unlike aircraft roundels, the 'full' vehicle roundel with yellow edge would not have a corresponding narrow white ring.

The painting of a star on the front is fairly unusual, but this was actually quite a common feature of armoured cars during this period, as they were at risk of being shot up by their own side when returning from patrols. I'm guessing that there is another star on the rear and possibly another star (circled?) on the roof.

From further reading, it seems that RAF Regiment armoured car crews were authorised to wear berets in RAF grey-blue. Here's an RAF Regt Gunner in beret (note the Airman's cap badge). He's also found a leather jacket from somewhere:

Note also the camouflage pattern just visible on the Humber LRC.

The tactical marking is interesting – not seen any tactical markings on RAF vehicles before, other than the registration number. 'TAF/84' means very simply 'Tactical Air Force/No. 84 Group'.

thanks mark, now to place an order and get on with the painting

jon

No worries. Strange – I don't know what happened to those photos. They were here earlier, but now all I'm seeing is the little 'x' of doom. Did you see them?

The first photo is here: link

and the second photo is here: link

R Mark Davies, Hello mate, are you by any chance ex RAF Regt, if so which Squdrons and when were you in. All the best…CH.

How DARE you, Sir!

;)

Nah, ex FC Branch and have been a Virtual Reality Trooper these last 20 years. There is at least one serving Rock O here though (normally found on the Napoleonic forum) and I've got a few ex and serving Rock mates, though God forbid I'd ever admit it in polite company… ;D

Hi Mark, thanks for that mate, hope your next poo is a pineapple, all the best…CH (Ex Rock)

;D

Nice rear-view of an RAF Regt Humber LRC here. It also shows uniform details – note the men have RAF Regiment shoulder-titles, as well as RAF Airman's shoulder-eagles and LAC/SAC propeller badges on the sleeves (note that officers would never wear the eagles):

Hi Mark,

What was the role of the Rifle Squadrons?

Thanks

Very simply they were there to provide close ground defence of tactical Air Landing Grounds and other RAF assets, such as HQs and supply depots, as well as lines of communication vital to RAF operations. They would also supply infantry support for the Armoured Car Squadrons in recce and convoy escort duties.

The Armoured Car Squadrons' main role was to provide 'defence in depth' – ranging out from the airfields to detect any enemy activity before it reached the airfield. They were also tasked with seeking out and securing new landing grounds during the advance. Their secondary role was convoy escort and liaison between units.

During the Winter of 1944/45, Rifle Squadrons were also frequently employed in a regular infantry role, relieving regular Infantry Battalions in the front line, with RAF Regt Wing HQs assuming the role of Infantry Battalion HQs. This became especially critical during the Ardennes Crisis, when a large number of British formations were withdrawn from the Maas line and Nijmegen Salient to block the German advance.

Of course the RAF Regiment's finest hour was probably the successful defence of a cluster of airfields at Meiktila, Burma, in 1945, against extremely determined Japanese attacks.

And in teaching me to shoot at least half-straight… ish…

Thanks Mark, that's something I'd not heard before.

No, nobody who knows me would agree that I shoot straight.

The wearing of a bluey-grey uniform including great coat would be very bad news in NW Europe. Khaki battledress all the way.

Ask the RAF Base Defence Sector unit that was 'captured' above Omaha beach and transported back to blighty. (Www.rafatomahabeach.com)

Per Ardua