"Prussian Cuirassier Details 1813" Topic

Hello, all,

I'm about to put together two Prussian cuirassier regiments in Litewkas for 1813/14. I'm thinking Brandenburg and Silsesian (but not quite settled yet).

I've seen contradictory information on several points:

1. Several sources indicate that the saddle cloths were in the facing colors (so each regiment would be different). Another source indicates that all Prussian cuirassier saddle cloths were red. (I know that the striping on the horse furniture was in the button color: no issue there).

2. One source (and illustration) indicates that the cuffs of the cuirassier litewka were only piped in the facing color. Another shows the entire cuff in the facing color (red in that case).

Can anyone clear up what the actual saddle cloth and cuff distinctions were?

Best,
Ed M

According to David Nash's The Prussian Army, 1808-1815, the cuirassiers' distinctions for the white kollet were:

No. 1 Silesian -- black facings and yellow buttons
No. 2 East Prussian -- light blue and white
No. 3 Garde du Korps -- red and white
No. 4 Brandenburg -- cornflower blue (by 1813) and yellow

For the dark blue litewka, the collars were in regimental facing except for No 4 which was scarlet. Cuffs were piped in collar color. Shoulder straps for all were white.

Saddlecloth was square and colored red for all regiments with double outer edging in button color.

Jim

P.S. All four regiments were in Prussian II Korps with the Army of Bohemia after the 1813 armistice.

I have to disagree with Colcampbell about the saddle cloth, it was as the facing colour with the exception – of the Brandenburger Kürassier Regiment were it was red.

The Garde du Corps had a special lace which was white with a tin blue stipe in between

Thanks, gents,

Nash is among my references, and I find it at odds with others, as per von Winterfeld.

Looking around the web at how others have represented them in their collections, the selection is rather small, but seems to lean towards doing the horse furniture in the facing color.

At the end of the day, it looks like a matter of preference. I'll probably go with saddle cloths in facing colors to help players differentiate between units (the good thing about Prussians is that their uniforms are a mystery to most, so the likelihood of being second guessed is pretty low--I just have to convince myself that they're as right as I can get them).

Thanks,
Ed M

Nash is wrong for that point, here some photos

Silesian Cuirassiers

Brandenburger Kürassiere

Blue facings but red saddle cloth (the exception=

Peter Hofschroer, in his Opsrey MAA-172 says the 'facing' colour was the shabraque colour, with the Brandenburgers being the exception. Richard Knoetel's Uniformenkunde shows both earlier and later examples of the Brandenburg Regiment.

With thanks to Markus Stein and Oliver Schmidt, we have the following, drawn from nature ….
Ludwig Wolf / Friedrich Jügel
Abbildungen der neuen Königl. Preussischen Armee-Uniformen, nach der Natur gezeichnet von L. Wolf, in Kupfer gestochen von F. Jügel
Berlin, 1813-1815

Offizier der Garde du Corps

Gemeiner der Garde du Corps

Offizier vom Schlesischen Kürassierregiment

Kürassier vom Schlesischen Kürassierregiment

- Sasha

A further interesting question is exactly what dress did the Prussian Cuirassiers wear in battle- ie the time we generally paint our soldiers to represent?

For years it has been the accepted understanding that the Cuirassiers wore their blue Litewkas 'on campaign' and most manufacturers have modelled their figures accordingly.

However, I think that I've seen reference to an 1813 order when the Cuirassiers were serving in the Army of Bohemia alongside their Austrian and Russian counterparts, that they should wear their white kollets, at least when battle was expected. If that's the case, most of the Prussian Cuirassier figures made in the last ten years even by the most respected manufacturers eg Perry, AB- are not accurate for the situation of formal battle.

Could a Prussian specialist shed light on whether this 'white kollet order' is correct or whether I've misunderstood/misremembered?

seneffe – I did read this as well, but I cannot track down any longer the source

Would be interesting to see this order to wear the Kollet in battle. In memories and regimental histories, I only found the following bits of info:

In the battle of Großgörschen on 1st May 1813, Seconde-Lieutenant Rochow of the Regiment Garde du Corps wore his Überrock. This item was only worn when the men were in Litewka.

In the combat at Haynau on 26 May 1813, Seconde-Lieutenant Pförtner v. d. Hölle (his real name, no joke) of the Schlesisches Kürassier-Regiment wore the white Kollet. This would imply the rank and file of this regiment wore the Kollet as well.

In the combat at Liebertwolkwitz on 14 October 1813, the Brandenburgsches Kürassier-Regiment was in Kollet, but with the greatcoat worn over it.

During the cold 1814 campaign, the cuirassiers wore greatcoats, as everybody.

Gawk! I recall seeing that recently too, and I would have thought it came from Oliver!

Thanks gentlemen. The mystery will continue then. I think I've seen it in a ??French magazine article somewhere. I've moved house recently so all my magazines are in the attic. Upside of moving- I've got a much bigger wargaming space. Downside of moving- my wife has got used to having a magazine free house. Swings and roundabouts…..

Back to the Cuirassiers- the Haynau ref is interesting- I think ?Rochling depicted this engagement and showed them in white too. Also Leibertwolkwitz- I wonder if that means the greatcoats were worn as garments or rolled as protection 'a la Saxonne'? Never seen any Prussians dressed in the latter style though.

Anyway- I want AB to do new figures in kollets!! I guess though their 1805 Russian Cuirassiers might fit the bill with some filing down of the helmet crest- but they all have carbines, which I think wouldn't be quite right. Any other suggestions?

Concerning Liebertwolkwitz, the source (regimental history) is definite:

"The regiment was in collets, with the greatcoats donned over them."

link

Thanks so far for the sources – I agree that cuirassiers in Kollet would be great for 1813 – 1814 – and AB – why not ;-)).