"WHAT MAKES AN IMAGI-NATION IMAGINARY" Topic

Here is a question which I do not think has been asked before, or if it has, it's a good time to revisit it.

What makes an Imagi-Nation Imaginary. Or, how far doe you have to move from strict historiography to make it mythical or Imaginary? Granted very much of this is up to the choice of the player, but -- at which point do we become Imagin-ary, and not just a slightly altered version of a real power.

The second part is when does an Imagi-Nation move from being something that Is beyond historiography into say "Fantasy." Is it when Dragons or Aliens or extreme anachonisms or atavism intrude?

To start the ball rolling I will offer my own opinion.

A Country even though it might have a made up name but is in accord with the general historiography of the period is still historical until it crosses the line into Imagi-Nations when it begins to modify human events and processes One could easily have an army in Gray Coats called Bad Zu-Wurst in the area of Prussia in the 18th century. it would move into Imagi-nation in a real way when Prussia were assumed materially different than it was, or for example, a Prussia if the Napoleonic Wars had not occurred.

An Imagi-nation remains an Imagi-nation in a wide latitude even to the point of having say, Elephants hauling around their siege guns (neverminding the why and wherefore of how they were acquitted, but moves into Fantasy land when it begins to violate causality or violates the laws of physics. Has Tanks (even a Leonardo-Da-Vinci Style) aliens, and the dragons and magic users show up.

Take a map of the isle of white, divide it into two and name the eastern half Austrania and the western half Prussench.

Use 18th century figures for the two nation's armies, but make up your own uniforms (the 1st Cowes militai for example are famed for their black and white striped uniforms, whilst the Needles Guard sport a rather jaunty crismson uniform, with a saffron hat – hence their nickname of "the tulips").

Voila ! Your imaginations are ready to go !

Magic and Dragons – that's yer actual fantasy.

So you agree.

I think there is a pretty wide range – we are planning a SYW Imagi-nation campaign with Hanover (Britain) and Brandenburg (Prussia) versus the Ancien Regime (France), the Holy Roman Empire (Austrio-Hungary) and the Empire of all the Russias (Russia), which sounds pretty historical – except we are doing it on a map of the Eastern US during the ACW

My own Imagin-nation is a 1,000,000 person country somewhere between Vienna and Berlin which has an ex-Austrian but very liberal monarchy who allow a fair bit of liberty – and whose army includes Jewish, Turkish and Huegenot units!

Why are most imagi-nations set in the 18th century?

Ak47 pretty much encourages imaginations I have Zumata a ex British colony and Lumata a communist state based on no real African states. I'm free to make up the armies and personalities for myself hence they are imaginations – no dragons are involved.

Nick. I believe that the first group of gamers used those figs to start it. There is a fascination when tricornes are involved for many! I have heard of Napoleonics and ACW being used (but not together). I think that the linear warfare of the mid 18th century saw the cut of the uniform almost the same; the tactics almost the same; the motives of monarchs almost the same and pretty basic for as much or as little details on painting the uniforms to your choice of color schemes!

For me, my mind conjers up visions of interesting color use of tricorned units when I hear the term "imagi-nation". While your mileage may differ, the concept of dreaming up the histories of units , countries, causes of conflicts, etc. allows you to create your own world. Fantasy gamers (think orcs, dwarves, etc.) and Sci-Fi gendres started out to where your imagination was the limit. For historical gamers, the same applies where you do not have to be a card carrying member of the button counting Society to enjoy games for us historical leaning types. (Also, it provides for a great excuse to buy more tricorned wearing figures and creating your own flags, color schemes, histories, etc…..oh well! You get the idea, I'm sure!

Have fun with it!

Imagi-Nation
"what your are about to see is real, the names have been changed to protect the guilty".

Tom,
True I suppose. I used to love reading the articles by Charles Grant in the old "Tradition" Magazine, detailed his wars and the back stories behind them. I would think though that the period from around 1890 – 1914 would be fertile ground as well.

An Imagi-nation is simply one that does not exist in history or the present. My two are Alsace-Lorraine, a self governing district that once might have been part of France but with a majority of the population being German speaking sees itself as more aligned with Austria; the other is the Stendorein Frei Stadte which funnily enough shares a border with Alsace-Lorraine. Not surprisingly the SFS looks to Prussia fr its military inspiration …

@OSchmidt – in a word "yes"

Another "era" which used to be prone to Imaginations was just-post WWII, and often South American based.

So you could equip your army with US post-WWII cast offs, and maybe the odd German 88mm Flak/Anti-tank, and a few Fiesler-Storch for battlefield communications, facing up to an opponent who'd been shipped some IS 2s and redundant Bren carriers !

Fun with a capital F !

In my opinion imagi-nations have to be based on real historical examples and therefore do not stray into fantasy (i.e. no magic or monsters).

I have had imagi-nations for about as long as I can remember, and they are imaginary countries based upon historical examples. In fact I decided some time ago to consolidate them and produced an imagi-world set in the late nineteenth century. For more detail, look here = link and here = link

Oh, you bet, Nick! Grant and others of that period, laid some fertile ground for game play. The background for the game can make or break the fun barrier. The neat part is the more you do research, the more you can find evidence that fact is stranger than fiction!

How about the WWI East African battle where the mad bees buzzing around routed both sides? Or the mission to steal a Model T ford out of a coastal town just to cannibalize the radiator to make a plane fly again?

Not to mention the British Naval officer that wore dresses his wife made for him…….

(Same time period you suggested.)

I had the idea to do an Imagi-nation situated between Spain and France, a spanish splinter state ruled by an aging princess. It was firmly an Imagi-nation to me because it was grounded in reality, but clearly ahistorical.

I also get a kick out of British Colonial period imagi-nations, especially in the back of beyond and northwestern frontier areas. This allows for all sorts of fun. The nations being fought for are imaginary but the forces are more historical with some flairs of fashion and heroics. Teddy and the Rough Riders in the back of beyond--Brits in Zulu-era uniforms instead of boring khaki, German marines, maybe some VSF contraptions, ect. What's not too like! :-)

BTW we like taking the suffix -stan and putting all sorts of things in front of it for some fun but realistic names. I came up with: Donunastan (a play on "don't understand", when said by proper natives of course.)

SYW imagi-nations have been tempting me lately.

Dear List

I do wonder like some posters why the majority of people seem to ground them in the 18th century. I can't think why (though I admit five of my seven Imagi-nation armies are from that epoch.)

I do have two modern Imagi-Nation Armies, and four Renaissance ones, and I am working on Ancient Imaginnation world. My Civil War army is IN the Civil War, but a parody.

I can't think of any area where they would not fit or could not be done.

I DO have a magical-fantasy component in my 18th century Imag-Nation or rather Imagi-World set up, but it never has any function on the table top or battlefield. There are "trolls" but they're not what you think, and don't look like trolls in the "classic" sense, they are more ephemeral beings and quite human (if not beautiful) I appearance. Their intrusion in the game is strictly literary or romantic and ephemeral. There are no troll units or soldiers, and represent a different kind of "other" like American Indians, Turks, or characters from the far frontiers.

Imagi-Nations, as explained by Charles Grant in 'The War Game', allow players to adjust the scope, size and scale of their campaign to their wishes and possibilities (rarely the same thing). Additionally they bring a sentiment of 'freedom' with regard to historical and geographical constraints, prevents any 'political' debate (Tintin's Syldavia instead of Romania) avoid to spoil the memory and records of historical leaders and regiments; they also allow to get rid of those dreadful 'national characteristics' (my infantrymen move faster than yours / mine are best shots) if so inclined.

From this common base the level of 'fiction' varies from one player to the other. Some use perfectly historical armies (advantages: they can appear in 'mainstream' historical games, and they are easier to sell once you get tired of them) under a fictional name. Some enjoy to design eye-candy uniforms (the NBA blog proposing SYW uniforms templates nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.fr was created for them), some develop a fictional country from literature (Ruritania, Syldavia), some write 'alternate history', i.e. Catalonia successfully fighting for independence during the WSS, or a Nestorian Mongol state. Some play quasi-randomly determined encounters and never bother to draw a map of their country, some enjoy to create its history, current political situation and plots, great Houses genealogies, economy, geography… more than playing a wargame campaign.

Charles Grant and Peter Young created and played their Imagi-Nations in mid-18th C. Germany because, with the historical 300+ states ans statelets of the HRE it was not 'sacrilegious' to add a pair of minor country to the mosaic.
It's intellectually easier to create an Imagi-Nation in a place and time where the Real World™ already offers a patchwork of numerous minor countries you are unsure to be able to locate on a map, only vaguely known at large, with often confusing names (Slovenia / Slovakia, Moldavia / Moravia…). Such situation generally corresponds to the ruins of a crumbled down empire -it was in practice the case of the HRE after the TYW. Thus are propitious to Imagi-Nations:
- 'Spanish' America, from the 19th C. wars of independence to…, well to the present time (hence Tintin Nuevo Rico and San Theodoros, Spirou Palombia -becaus ein French 'palombe' is anothe rname for 'colombe');
- the Balkans and Central Europe after the reflux of the Ottoman Empire, then the explosion of the Austro-Hungarian Empire,
- Sub-Saharian 'decolonized' Africa (AK47 rules, e.g.),
- post-USSR Caucasus with all those countries in 'stan': Belchistan, Pukistan, though French soldiers of fortune prefer Khukistan…

Why mostly set in the 18th C., in addition to the Young / Grant precedent / tradition? Imagi-Nation builders may design pretty uniforms, but when it comes to paint figurines, unless sculptors / casters themselves or tireless skilled converters they have to be content with what is commercially available, that is, *historical* miniatures. Then, for the 'Horse & Musket' period (no uniforms before, a few worldwide dominant models in more recent times) the 18th C. has the great advantage that 'Western' military fashion was quite uniform. There *were* national characteristics, but not too conspicuous, it was tricorne and coat with cuffs for everybody. Hence historical miniatures can be treated as almost 'generic', without the hazard of everybody commenting 'Oh, soldiers of this X country fancifully painted!'. 18th C. uniforms were certainly more 'generic' (from a distance, say, the distance you look at a table-top battle) than, say, Napoleonic ones where according to country the standard military headgear was a flowerpot, a frying pan or a stovepipe (true, historically some minor countries adopted the military fashion of their powerful ally /protector, so it would not be 'shocking' to have a small Imagi-Nation, or at least a Freikorps / Legion in British or Prussian service, in Napoleonic Germany: but the Confederacy of The Rhine is less inspiring than the HRE of the Lace Wars).

Fantasy is totally optional, and when appearing generally limited to 'Beast of Gevaudan' (with a real werewolf) / vampire hunting adventures of 'skirmish' scale in parallel (as a refreshing sideline) to the 'major' campaign and not interfering with it. The same for 'science fiction' elements, say, your Enlightened Ruler funding the building of a balloon or a steamtank.

Fantastic discussion…..

I always wanted to play imagi-nations but my upbringing forbid me to paint ahistorical figures. So all my soldiers from all ages have historical "defendable" uniforms (with the exact number and colour of butons).

Imaginations is a great concept and is the link to the basic idea of the tin soldiers… It is a toy for kids….

I wish i could play it…

Greetings and have fun…

Would an alternate history nation count as an Imagi-nation?

For example, in our world the Byzantine Empire ended in 1453 AD with the Fall of Constantanople. For a while a friend and I were playing pre-Dreadnought ironclad naval warfare. I wanted to have an alternate history where Byzantium survived into the 19th century and would clash with the British Empire over Egypt and the Levantine. The project never went farther than designing Byzantine ironclads and a few meeting engagements against the Royal Navy.

Honestly, to do it properly more research is needed as my knowledge of Byzantine history is thin, and what little I know suggests there is more than just one key point in the timeline that needs changing if Byzantium is to survive as a major power past the mid 15th century.

Same here as CPBelt. Allows me to use my Zulu era red coated brits, against an amalgamation of Baluchis, Nile Arabs, Afghani's, etc.

A catchy name, plausible (implausible?) plot line, and ability to roughly identify where the nation is located on the globe, like the out of control matriarchy, in charge of Kardashia.

Like my slowly growing armies for the Kingdom of Batavia in a world very similar to the 1750s in Europe.

Or my 1920s USA where the South won its independence in 1852. Now the North is one of the richest nation in the world, with a navy to rival Great Britians, allied with Germany and bitter enemies still with France over the bombardment of NY, Boston and the burning of DC in 1851. The South has splintered into multiple regions, some doing ok like the Republic of Texas or the Virginia/North Carolina Commonwealth. While the deep south makes some third world countries look nice. Think the Balkans and the Congo combined.

Of course this gives me an excuse to build armies to fight over the Oklahoma oil wells. Early tanks and planes. Cavalry and mounting infantry in those fancy new trucks. Plus lots of foot marching over the dusty plains.

I suppose the first step into Imagi-Nations could be when you fight a battle that never was. For example if one were to use completely historical armies to fight the "What-If" Battle of Campo Sangria in 1810 Napoleonic Spain. It's not historical and might be considered the "Gateway drug" for the Imagi-Nation. But then EVERYBODY does that so that definition would be meaningless-- or would it???!!

The addition of a hodge-podge of mythical units among the real, or absolutely historically correct and accurate real units in an imaginary set up or hypothetical set up still transgresses from the absolute historical veracity-- but that these days would garner naught but a resounding "so what??!!" if one were to bring it up.

The real attraction of wargames are only two- "Sense of wonder" and "Spirit of Play." Once can dress these up as one wishes but they both come down to the very adolescent-- no-- I'd rather use "childish" "WOW!!!! NEAT!!!!" on the one hand and "Let's Make Believe" on the other. The splendor of miniature armies, historical or imagi-nationally on the one hand (along with terrain and table top) and on the other hand the mental image that we are actually there, actually taking part or even just vicariously re-enacting the battle" is the draw.

So far event his does not advance us very far into Imagi-Nation land. That comes when we give in to the temptation, almost rhapsodically stated by Satan in Milton's "Paradise Lost"-- "It is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven." That is when we want to go to the next step, to create and control the history and the story that is all around and in with and under the battlefield presence of "Sense of Wonder" and "Spirit of Play."

But this is a very dangerous thing.

One can see Jimminy Cricket asking us "So you want to be a God!? Well what type of God will you be, and how exactly will you rule in your heaven?

For me this became a pursuit of parody where elements of buffa, broad farce, and burlesque took over any real desire for military glory or personal validation. The armies and lands became merely the stage and the chorus for the comic opera countries I wanted to make, and in which every absurd plot, every ponderous and convoluted libretto that ever graced the stage of grand or comic opera, could be found.

@ punkrabbitt returns: as for "an Imagi-nation situated between Spain and France", you already have Andorra
The difficulty is that most countries, and France specially, feel more comfortable within 'natural borders'

An almost likely possibility (besides an independent 'Euskal Herria' Basque country, afaik never explored in a wargaming context) is an independent Catalonia. Catalan is a 'Southern French' (Langue d'Oc) language, not a 'Spanish' one (1). Catalonia extended North of the Pyrenees before 1659 (and before that was part of the Carolingian 'Frank' kingdom). The Catalan population offered French king Louis XIII to become Count of Barcelona, but the example of Navarre suggests that such 'personal union' would have led to the full integration of Catalonia in the French Kingdom. A possibility cherished by Catalan 'What-if?' wargamers is Catalonia successfully resisting the 'Castillan' invasion and winning its independence during the WSS what-if-catalonia.blogspot.com.
But an even more interesting possibility would be a country covering Catalonia and (most of) the County of Toulouse having victoriously repelled the Albigensian Crusade. Specially if this country managed to keep alive the cultural essentials of the land of troubadours *and trobairitz* YouTube link , of Courtly Love and religious tolerance, of merry secular dances and music YouTube link an almost free and unveiled women YouTube link, a civilization far more 'advanced' than that of Northern France.

Fiction already offers a few examples of independent countries set between France and Spain: the location of Poictesme en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poictesme is not very precise but the country could fit the bill link

Happy Trypheme (the location of Pierre Louys' 'Adventures of king Pausole' link) is explicitly located, if not between France and Spain, at least on the side:

By its general location (mutatis mutandis), its climate and general atmosphere, Poitain described by in the 'Hyborian' world of Conan the Barbarian corresponds to a country between France and Spain.
"…the tall rich grass waved upon the plains where grazed the horses and cattle for which Poitain was famed. Palm trees and orange groves smiled in the sun, and the gorgeous purple and gold and crimson towers of castles and cities reflected the golden light. It was a land of warmth and plenty, of beautiful men and ferocious warriors."

---
1: the languages family generally called 'Occitan' nowadays, but for centuries linguists have called it 'Limousin' ('Llemosi' in Catalan): 'Occitania' having never be politically united there was no 'official' Langue d'Oc, linguists instead referred to what was indeed taken as a reference in its time, the elegant tongue of the trobadors link : one of the first and most famous, Bernart de Ventadorn link . YouTube link was born in Limousin.

@ Rudi the german: do you exclude historical 'test' uniforms (they generally would require conversions, headswappings chiefly, to be translated into miniatures): for instance the experimental French tenue réséda p
of 1903 with its 'Boer hat':

And what about uniforms that historically were designed but never implemented? Murat among others had several 'flashy' projects: for instance hos Gardes du Corps were to look like French cuirassiers entirely clad in white with amaranth facings, golden cuirass, golden helmet with white (black would have be too 'common') 'horse mane' and amaranth plume; all colors reversed (and a lot of livery lace) for the trumpeters, kettle drummer in 'Turco-Polish' (!) costume….

And then there are the uniforms of those almost unknown short-lived historical units, such as Catherine II's Amazon Guard

link

@ Ancestral hamster: all 'What-if?' countries are Imagi-Nations -they are imagined by their creator. Less obviously maybe, all Imagi-Nations are, explicitly or implicitly, 'What-if?' countries, all belong to Alternate History.
P. Young's «Electorate of Teutoberg-Althaufen» ('Charge! Or, how to play wargames'), any Margraviate of Saxe-Apeel, imply that sometime in the past an additional living son in a princely brood followed by dynastic marriages led to the creation of another state in the HRE. Ruritania, Syldavia syldavianchronicle.blogspot.com require a serious historical divergence and some enjoy to reconstruct their history (there was a fascinating, thoroughly researched 'History of Ruritania' written in the style of a research paper in an academical journal in the archived files of the 'Old School Wargaming' Yahoo group).
Catalonia surviving the WSS as an independent principality ‌what-if-catalonia.blogspot.com or republic theholythorn.blogspot.com are 'What-if?' countries but at the same time Imagi-Nations.
To exist, a Crusader Successor state in exile somewhere in the Balkans link, a Catholic Deutschordensstaat Teutonic State surviving as a Banat on the Ottoman border link, Nouvelle Baratarie (a multi-ethnic republic founded by jesuits in the area of the Great Lakes baratarie.blogspot.com), an advanced Cossack state alcovia18.blogspot.com, a long lasting kingdom of Hawai link, a surviving independent Texas (or a California under the Norton dynasty link)… all imply a given historical departure from our time line.

Of course purist 'alternate historians' would claim that these are NOT 'serious' AH, since the dread 'butterfly effects' (any non-trivial divergence from our time line will change everything everywhere, given time) link, but anyway, if taken to the letter butterfly effects allow to write almost anything and the opposite some time after the point of departure, so….

The marvelous point about Imagi-Nation is that there are no rules, they are excuses to enjoy doing what one likes best to do. Playing battles with toy soldiers, painting miniature figurines? Yes for most of us, but generally not 'only' that. Wittenberg allows its creator to build ephemeral dioramas link . link . link . link . link . link…. Neues Sudland link and the Holy Mormoan Kingdom of New South Wales link saw little or none military activity but their creators not only designed uniforms and flags, detailing regimental histories and traditions, but developed the economy, society and politics of their countries with sarcastic, if veiled, references to our current Real World™. Some Imagi-Nations support a rewriting of History what-if-catalonia.blogspot.com, others are an excuse to write short picaresque fiction petersimplissimus.blogspot.com… An imaginary city-state was created to allow friendly (internet) interactions between players who would never have an opportunity to meet physically in the Real World link.

Years ago it was proposed on the 'Emperor vs Elector' collective blog to engage in a play-by-email game of secret diplomacy and spying link. Having just re-watched old James Bond movies mostly set in the Bahamas I created a kind of Monte-Carlo (with some aspects -tax haven, specially- of Switzerland or at least Liechtenstein). A small emphatically neutral countries providing major powers with a convenient 'neutral ground' for secret diplomacy -and,of course a seething nest of spies- under the pleasant climate of the Côte d'Azur. With a spa and a casino as excuses to come and pleasant services to encourage to stay; its independence and neutrality also guaranteed by the fact that in all countries of importance (and most of others) people of influence and power have secret numbered accounts in the State bank.

Having retired from active wargaming long before retiring professionally I built that monstrosity, a peaceful, officially demilitarized wargaming Imagi-Nation. Instead of developing the army I developed the culture, mores and values (with a lot of initial input from Pierre Louys' Trypheme, for instance the conception that ugliness, not nudity, is obscene so young and fair people go naked, weather permitting: the [in]famous 'Monte-Cristan zerokini link which becomes a 'bikini' with a pair of sandals, then a 'trikini' with the addition of a straw hat). Then I added a darker layer under the 'flower power / peace and love' appearance: a service of state Assassins, an all-female secret diplomacy, 'monitoring' and spying network (the ruler's 'wives': officially 366 because of the leap years).

The spying game never materialized but now and then some personality from an 'Emperor vs Elector' Imagi-Nation honors the Presipality (1) with a visit. Sometimes, it's true, by accident link (but such visitors seem to enjoy their sojourn link); most of the time on their own will, e.g. a 'commercial agent' from Waldreck link . link, the Great Duke of Saxe-Beertsein during is Grand Tour of Eve-Europe link . link and soon after the fair ambassadrix from Cavenderia link. Katarin Lahmia, the mysterious Direktorix from Herrschaden link, came officially to raise a Legion of Monte-Crisatn volunteers link. A religious personality even came from the antipodes and departed deeply enlightened link . link. More recently a representative of resistant Catalonia had a fruitful sojourn here link (details on the 'Defiant principality' blog link and later; see also link and newer posts under the label Claire Baizanville). Time being as elastic a space in the 'Emperor vs Elector' universe, while some visitors come from 1713 and some from the aftermath of the SYW, their sojourn in Monte-Cristo ( a kind of Tanelorn en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanelorn?) always takes place in 1745.
But when there is no foreign visitor nothing ever happens in merry Monte-Cristo.

--
1: because it is ruled by a semi-hereditary but elected Prince-President, the POPP (Prince Ovationné Président par le Peuple). I realized too late that 'Presipacy' would have be a better translation than 'Presipality' of French 'Présipauté' based on 'Papauté' = Papacy.

@abdul666lw: Thanks for the reply. BTW, the thought of a Norton dynasty amuses me. Also, the people of 19thC San Francisco were willing to indulge His Majesty. While the Bay Area is still more tolerant of eccetricity than other places in California, you couldn't get away with that nowadays.

But an even more interesting possibility would be a country covering Catalonia and (most of) the County of Toulouse having victoriously repelled the Albigensian Crusade. Specially if this country managed to keep alive the cultural essentials of the land of troubadours *and trobairitz* YouTube link , of Courtly Love and religious tolerance, of merry secular dances and music YouTube link an almost free and unveiled women YouTube link, a civilization far more 'advanced' than that of Northern France.

Of the potential Imagi-nations you've mentioned, this one most interests me. It reminds me of A Song for Arbonne by Guy Gavriel Kay, a favorite book of mine. Call it a fantasy alternate history. The cultures are those of the time of the Albigensian Crusade, but the geography is altered. Mr. Kay has written a number of such fantasies: a not-Renaissance Italy, a not-Byzantium, a not-Reconquista Spain, a not-pre-Norman Conquest Britain, and two novels in his not-China. They are worth reading, and perhaps might serve as inspiration for further imagi-nations.

For those who might want a historical seed to work from, Vanished Kingdoms [Norman Davies, Viking 2011, ISBN 978-0-670-02273-1] has 15 chapters each focusing on a now-extinct polity, from Alt Clud (roughly centered on modern Dunbarton in Scotland) to the Soviet Union. Of interest are the short-lived kingdoms or nations that proved unviable in the long run. In a few cases it really came down to a coin toss. What if in this world the Celts won a crucial battle against the Saxon invaders? The Celtic hegemony in northern Britain (of which the Kingdom of Alt Clud was part) might have survived as a major force instead of being pushed to the margins. Even if the book is does not inspire an imagi-nation, getting a look at the history of the forgotten and defeated is interesting. (Although I disagree at his including Byzantium and the Soviet Union as part of the forgotten…)

Abdul,

Test and minimal uniforms are ok…

I got into this period because I like the imaginative uniform options. I ended up nlt going with Tricorns or Europe bwcause I already had an imagi-nation in the 30's and the modern era and just decided to go back in the timeline a bit.

-Eli

P.S. I have elephants where they shouldn't be

@ Eli Arndt: I maintain that, given the climate and culture of Alcovia they really should be wholly mammoths:

(and, once armored, their 'prehistoric' nature would quite unobtrusive)

I considered mammoths but thought that might be pushing it

Nothing would prevent me using wooly mammoths if I could even half rationalise them. They could be the very difference that creates the whole imaginary world.

"Wooly mammoths do not become extinct and so….."

You are both evil…evil men

You know… it occurred to me.

Poland as a country of respectable extent and size in the 8th Century, but with a minimal army and the pawn of others. But you could "Imagination-ize it" and create a Polish army of say 1740 or so. Not a bunch of confederations and odd-ball whacko's but a regular Army and Order of Battle like France or Prussia and it would be just as legitimate as any, and… not that far from the truth.

You could paint em red… or… wait for it.. Polish Crimson.

Hmmmm… There might be a certain satisfaction in having a Polish Army trounce Prussians, Russians, and Austrians….

Hmmm a few weeks ago I posted a thread on the Napoleonic List that got all the yappy-nappy's nickers in a twist by imaginging what the era WE callt he Napoleonic Wars would be like if there were no French Revolution and Napoleon. It would be a simple matter to assume that and Napoleon whent mercenary and took a job as a General in the Polish Army….

No… wait… haven't the Poles suffered enough already>…

For us it's pooling all our SYW figures together and dividing it up ignoring the nationality so we can play a game with the hopes of one day having enough painted up to play historically accurate oppositions.

I'd like to have the time to actually build a imaginations army of my own creation(uniforms etc.), but that's not in cards for the foreseeable future.

Christopher

Mine is one of the many German statelets that may never have been, it's blue infantry uniforms are not quite Reichsarmee standard (blue trousers you see….), and the cavalry, lights and artillery are a bit more autre' – it is a nice force for little games and also forms a perfectly believable Reichsarmee brigade in my French 7YW outfit.

My 7YW French army however also has an imaginary component. – the Poictesme regiment (see above from Abdul), the Moselle, the Swiss Valais, and of course the Volontaires de Lanzerac. Once the bug has bitten….

I have another more outrageous project which is trundling along nicely, aka New Byzantium, a state that emerges after the Austro Turkish war and is a blend of western mercenaries, ex Turkish regulars, Turkish mercenaries and Balkan irregulars/lights, with it's structure based on the Komnenan Byzantine army. It's a c 1748 – 1850 force.

As to other periods, I have a cold war African army in 6mm.

@abdul666lw: thank you for the very excellent suggestions of Andorra and Catalonia. I have revisited this topic for inspiration, as I am feeling rather creative tonight in a hobby sort of way. After some historical research, i settled on a small principality on the easern edge of the Spanish Netherlands, set about 1725. Perhaps El Principado de la Comadreja and La Princesa Remolacha will turn into a Imagi-Nation blog at some point. I have some ideas for very spiffy uniforms (at least from my Goth Child perspective) and best of all, the Spanish in their exploration of the New World discovered a tropical jungle valley full of Dinosaurs! What better skirmish game than a small group of tricorn-and-musket equipped soldiers trying to capture a family of Triceratops to bring back to the Old World for that crucial edge in future battles! Because sometimes, 18th century elephants just aren't enough…

Anyways, the plan at this point is to use a bastard redheaded stepchild of Song of Blades and Heroes crossed with Song of Drums and Shakos. That will allow the more gunpowdery rules alonmg with the warbeast and animal handler rules.

Thank you for tolerating my ramblings…