"When was the Chieftian Mk 10 with Stillbrew Operational?" Topic

Haven't found any dates on this, despite a decent search try.

Most just mention when the Chieftian was first introduced, and not the various marks of them.

So, does anyone know when the Chieftian Mk 10 was operational?

Are there any decent on-line references for other tank models as well, e.g. various marks of the Centurion, Challenger, other MBTs, etc.?

There are some operational dates for the various models of Chieftan (and other tanks) in the equipment charts for Modern Spearhead. I'm not sure how accurate they are but they give an idea.

It is really hard to find accurate data on when particular types of vehicle/weapon were actually in service with units (as opposed to in production/sitting in depots).

Many Cold War gamers might be a tad disappointed with when the supertanks (Chally, Abrams etc) actually pitched up in significant numbers in Germany. Which is why I tend to ignore them as the CW was virtually over by the time they arrived.

There is still some disagreement as to when and which units got L85 first and I know people who joined up relatively recently who were still being issued 58 pattern webbing.

Yes, I can see that.

I was surprised to read that the BMP-2s really didn't get fielded in any quantity in Europe until the mid-late 1980s, even though it was apparently available around 1980, or so.

Makes it much simpler, and probably less expensive (probably don't really need to field them in quantity, if at all, unless really desired), but was still a bit of a surprise.

IIRC (Swanning about on Ex Lionheart) of the armoured regiments only the RH had Chally 1's in 1984, all (most?)of the rest were Stillbrew. (Take with a pinch of salt as a lot of yellow handbags had been consumed….)

What worries me is I actually understand Ben's post. :-)

Fatman

The Skins still had them up to amalgamation in the early 90s I think.

I have been considering a modern variant for Crossfire to cover Nato/Warpact games in the mid-1980s.

I had tentatively entitled the rules "Yellow Handbags: BAOR and 3SA"

:-)

Barrie

Outstanding!

Yellow Handbag for the youngsters…

Ah, that helps, since "yellow handbags" doesn't quite translate on this side of the pond.

So, perhaps mid to late 1970s, or is that completely off, given the Mk V was available around mid-late 1960s, or so, IIRC?

I seem to remember 1984 as the in-service date for Stillbrew. Certainly not as early as the 70s.

Rob Griffin in his book on the Chieftain states that Base Workshops were fitting Stillbrew in 1986 but his later book, in the photosniper series states it was fitted in '82 -'84. You pays your money and takes your choice but the later date seem more likely to me.

Did Chieftain get TOGS at the same time as Stillbrew or were they separate upgrades?

I seem to remember 1984 as the in-service date for Stillbrew. Certainly not as early as the 70s.

"After highly successful firing and mobility trials during 1984 and 1985, Royal Ordnance Leeds began the manufacture of the applique armour package. It is fitted over the frontal aspect of the turret and around the driver's position to give additional protection to the turret ring. From 1986 Chieftains were fitted with Stillbrew armour in 23 REME Base Workshops at Wetter, West Germany, during base overhaul."
Page 46 of Chieftain Main Battle Tank 1965-2003 by Simon Dunstan.

Did Chieftain get TOGS at the same time as Stillbrew or were they separate upgrades

Separate upgrade. Stillbrew was the Mk10 & TOGS was the Mk11. I don't think all the MK10s were upgraded to Mk11 so not all late Chieftains had TOGs. I have a feeling that BAOR units had TOGs but others didn't but can't remember where I got that from so I might be havering.

Fascinating thread – thanks all!

FWIW according to Simon Dunstan's Osprey NV23 Challenger MBT 1982-97, the Royal Hussars were fully equipped with Chally 1s by May 1985, and the next Regts to be so equipped were 2RTR, 17/21L, and the QRIH. Famously the RSDG were also equipped with Chally 1s by Desert Storm, so estimate at least 5 regiments has Chally 1s through the second half of the 1980s….

Thanks for the details, gents.

I really appreciate it.

What is/are TOGS?

Thermal (Optical?) Gunnery System?

Thermal Observation & Gunnery Sight.

I have listed the principal upgrades to British equipments that effect the Wargamer here which includes the main Chieftain upgrades

link

Most of the references used are shown

I always find it amusing that chalky 1 came into service fitted for but not with TOGs.

Thanks Mark.

Never heard of that, or the acronym before.

Excellent info, Andy.

Thanks for all the details, and posting a link to it.

Yes to above especially yellow handbags! Just seen this thread, been fighting 1814 in Suffolk!

Tally Ho!

LOL! Yellow handbags! Hadn't heard that in YEARS….

English, English is a very odd language.

Must attempt to try to learn it sometime.

Anyone seen Wolfgang?

I have listed the principal upgrades to British equipments that effect the Wargamer here which includes the main Chieftain upgrades

Mate what a great resource – thanks!

RHD/G in Athlone Bks, Sennelager began the transition to C1 86/87. Because of the classification of the inside of C1 the hangers were upgraded as was the security fence. Of course at the time the soldiers had to leave the barracks in jacket and tie, so they were forever trying to cut through the fence to go drinking in illegal T-shirts and jeans!!

Tally Ho!