"MWwBG 371 - Austrians at war" Topic

A great little read in this month's issue from an Austrian gamer (sorry, no mag on me so no name). What caught my attention though was how "secret" ganming appears to be in Austria – with the article only using nicknames etc for people. I had not realised there was such a social stigma attached.

from now on, I will worry less here in the UK about being seeing as a geek/nerd for playing with toy soldiers, as it sounds like we have it easy.

To our fellow Austrian gamers – here's to your enjoyment of our hobby – toy war not real war.

Mm, well I have to admit I don't keep it a secret but I tried to keep to myself at work. I took enough grief for more innocent reasons as it was.

As I have already written in a letter to Henry Hyde, I think the article gives a bit of a skewed perspective on the whole issue. I have grown up in Austria, although I don't live there anymore, and I have played in the late 80ies, when there were at least 2 stores in Vienna. I don't know much about the local club scene, which I guess was mostly SF/F, but there was historical gaming done outside the circle Mr. Ehart talks about, which seem to be quite peculiar.
I myself played GW stuff but started to collect a SYW army in 15mm, played with friends and read Miniatures Wargames (anyone remember Little Tipping?). I was about 16, carried the mag to school to read it during boring lessons etc. – I can't remember being much stigmatized for it.

I also find it irritating that Mr Ehart makes such a divide between SF/F gaming and historical gaming. I have the deepest respect for the old school movement, but I think there were developments in SF/F that brought much needed innovation into the hobby. One of those innovations was an opening towards a much broader audience, and that's another thing that I miss in Mr Eharts piece: By concentrating on the efforts of tin soldier collectors and the Hahn group, he makes it look as if wargaming was and is a past time for retired officers and elderly gentleman. Having been at TACTICA in Hamburg this month (albeit Germany, not Austria), I was pleasantly suprised by the large number of young, more 'nerdy' people and especially women – and I am sure that there is a much similar scene in Austria.

Concerning the wish not to see one's name in public: I don't think this is a specific Austrian experience. If you read some of the 'confessional literature', as I call it, like H. Pearson's marvelous Achtung Schweinhund!, being a wargamer in the closet, so to say, seems to be a rather universal experience.

By putting the history of the Hahn group and a peculiar social milieu in the foreground, I think Mr Ehart gives a skewed picture of Austrian wargaming. Also, it seems that Vivat was not the first Austrian Wargames show, another one called 'The Austrian Salute' has been around for some time – they had the fourth show this year:
link

Cheers,
Shandy

SO, cpt shandy, now you've 'come out of the closet' here on TMP, there's nothing to stop you writing that rebuttal piece I suggested, is there?

Henry

I might if I knew any Austrian war gamers (who live in Austria)! The thing is, I don't live in Austria any more and don't know what's happening there – and to write a rebuttal, I think one should know what one is talking about. I am just relating anecdotal evidence here. Unless you want a story about me reading MW under the bench at school… btw, who was Loki now?

Mr. Ehart's description of wargaming's social unacceptableness sounds very much like my own experience from the late 1960s and early 1970s (in the U.S.), and thus rings of truth. While there is likely much local variation, I'm sure he accurately describes the Austrian wargaming circles in which he moves, from his personal frame of reference.

Players of multiple genres of wargame often overlook that purely historical wargamers see SciFi/Fantasy gaming as a separate hobby (and have every right to do so) and therefore view it as irrelevant or a (sometimes annoying) distraction, as Mr. Ehart apparently does. It is no more reasonable for a multiple-genre gamer to insist that a historical gamer must include SF/F in their hobby than it is for a historical gamer to insist that multiple-genre gamer may not include it.

The growth of the SF/F offshoot of wargaming has indeed far outstripped and overshadowed the more measured growth of the historical wargaming hobby and historical wargamers have benefited from it peripherally, but this does not necessarily imply that all historical wargamers should embrace SF/F gaming, any more than PBS should embrace Reality TV merely because it would bring in a larger audience. If I may use another analogy, that would be like insisting that a vegetarian restaurant increase traffic by offering a Friday night prime rib special; it would attract more people, but only at the expense of compromising the whole purpose of their chosen endeavor.

Mr. Ehart and others like him have every right to view and pursue their chosen hobby without being told that they must include things that do not interest them . . . and I say this as a historical gamer who has been privileged to have spent gaming time with such lights of the SF/F genre as Dave Arneson and M.A.R. Barker, and hosted many an all-night session of Traveller.

Regards,

Jeff

Jeff, of course everyone has the right to pursue their hobby however they like, that was not even remotely my point. My contention is only if one viewpoint represents itself as the only one, being a description of _the_ hobby – like if GW calls itself 'the hobby'.
I just wanted to point out that the view Mr Ehart offers of Austrian wargaming is limited, such as is mine, and should perhaps not be taken as representative of wargaming in Austria as such. I have all respect for what Mr Ehart does, this is not intended as an attack on any sort of wargamers.

It seems that my article has triggered an interesting discussion.

Yes, I have only a limited view of the szene in Austria.
But I think this is a more common problem, because the Austrian wargaming community is, as I wrote, more or less hidden and closed. It seems that in the "Festung" the same five or ten guys are discussing and some of them I knew from Katzelsdorf. But perhaps this article (and the mentioned events) could trigger some more publicity ?

Yes, I'm not very interested in fantasy and SF-wargaming, but I know them (I was thinking of playing battletech, but hadn't enough time for it up to now) and had some friends who plays both. And yes, these games are indeed an import part of the hobby, especially for recruiting younger gamers.

Because historic gaming is my theme I was very pleased about the first historical gaming event (as it was advertised).
I have heard about the Austrian Salute and already mentioned it in my article, together with some other events (which were not dedicated historical events, but with some partizipation).

The fantasy and SF-gamers had enough possiblities for gaming (in my opinion), so I think it is important to give more publicity to historical gaming. Hope this will help and I also hope that I will get more information about historical gaming in Austria in the future.

Regards,
Franz

Hi Franz,

thanks for answering. As I've already said I have all respect for your efforts and I agree that more publicity for historical gaming is important. Visiting TACTICA in Hamburg, I had the feeling that there doesn't have to be a contradiction or even rivalry between historical and SF/F gaming. SF/F gaming is also so much more than Games Workshop and in recent years there have been many crossover things like Pulp or VBCW. And anyway, each one draws his or her own line differently (e.g. the Lardies would probably put Flames of War into the fantasy field ;-)).
I think that wargaming, in Austria or elswehere, can do with more publicity and more young blood! Every event in this direction is an event to be applauded.
Best,
Thomas

Glad to see you on this site Franz, and interesting to see Thomas's views as well. Thanks to both of you.