Tgunner | 04 Mar 2014 12:17 p.m. PST |
I just read this article about a Perry class frigate that ran on a shoal in the Black Sea: link I got curious about the Taylor and decide to look her up: link And I read this
Armament: As built:1 × OTO Melara Mk 75 76 mm/62 caliber naval gun 2 × Mk 32 triple-tube (324 mm) launchers for Mark 46 torpedoes 1 × Vulcan Phalanx CIWS; four .50-cal (12.7 mm) machine guns. 1 × Mk 13 Mod 4 single-arm launcher for Harpoon anti-ship missiles SM-1MR Standard anti-ship/air missiles (40 round magazine) Note: As of 2004, Mk 13 systems removed from all active US vessels of this class. Mk 38 Mod 2 in place of Mk 13 So what's a Mk38 Mod 2??? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_38 It's a Bushmaster autocannon. You know, the 25mm popgun on the famous M2/M3 Bradley. A nice weapon eh? I can really rip up surface targets within 3000m or so. It replaced the frigate's missile launcher which could shoot SAMS and SSMs. So in essence the USN just took a rather expensive FFG and turned it into a really big, but very lightly armed, gunboat. In this configuration the USS Taylor has: 1 76mm Main Gun 1 25mm Bushmaster secondary gun 1 Phalanx CIWS 4 .50 HMGs 2 Mk32 triple torpedo tubes She weighs in at 4,100 tons by the way
oh, she can carry two helos too. Can't forget that. Here's the stats on a WWII Fletcher 2100 tons Armament:
As built: 5 x127mm 5 in/38 caliber (5×1), 4 × 1.1 inch (28 mm)/75 guns (1×4) 6 × Oerlikon 20 mm cannons (6×1) 10 × 21 in torpedo tubes (2x5; 10 Mark 15 torpedos) 6 x K-guns 2 x depth charge racks
And to add insult to injury here's the USS Oahu she was one of the famous Yangtze patrol craft: 450 tons 2 × 3"/50 caliber gun 8 × .30 cal. machine guns
Basically a similar armament but about a 10th of the displacement. So what do you say. Is she really a frigate or an overpriced, over sized, poorly armed gunboat? |
PHGamer | 04 Mar 2014 12:24 p.m. PST |
Lets not forget, the Oliver Hazard Perry only has one engine, so when it goes, well, you need a tow truck. Like a much older destroyer, as I mention in my blog entry "A Bad Day For Communism" link Enjoy |
emckinney | 04 Mar 2014 12:31 p.m. PST |
Keep in mind the sonar and that the torpedoes are really anti-submarine weapons. The two helicopters give tremendous ASW capability and take up a lot of space. Its real purpose was always ASW, and it provides excellent capability, despite its age. |
Tgunner | 04 Mar 2014 12:39 p.m. PST |
Very true. She is still a good ASW platform. Problem is that she is almost helpless against surface threats or any sort of aircraft
unless they get in really close. At least the launcher could provide that minimal capability, but they replaced it with a 25mm autocannon. A really good autocannon, but nevertheless, an autocannon. That's not a bad array for patrolling around looking for pirates, but she's a big target in the Black and South Chinese Seas. |
CorroPredo | 04 Mar 2014 3:18 p.m. PST |
And the Navy wanted to remove the Oto Melara Mk 75's at one point. If it's not a carrier, the Navy doesn't want it. Kinda like the Air Force on anything that isn't a F-35 |
dragon6 | 04 Mar 2014 3:48 p.m. PST |
I'm sure there are manpads on board but you're correct. The Mk 13, and Standard 1 missiles, were removed to make more available to allies as it's out of production. And many of those ships are now retired. Why they didn't even give the Perrys RAM is a good question. Probably the money was spent on the LCS instead? Wave of the future doncha know? |
EvilBen | 04 Mar 2014 4:14 p.m. PST |
I always rather admired the (short-lived) scheme in the Royal Navy in the 1950s of single-purpose escorts being frigates, and general-purpose escorts being destroyers (if they could go fast) or sloops (if they couldn't). It stopped working as soon as the Tribals were re-rated as frigates, and bears no resemblance to anything that happens now, but it had a certain elegance and coherence. And it has sloops in it, which I count as a plus. Anyway, I only mention it because on that basis this would still count as an ASW frigate. Helos also come in handy for slapping about other people's fast attack craft, don't they? I'd say that makes her more than a gunboat too. Missiles launched from a helicopter might well be more useful than ones mounted on the hull against many surface threats, I'd have thought, though from a position of profound igorance. (I don't really understand anything that's more recent than a trireme.) That still leaves out the anti-aircraft armament, but that also sucked on many British ships of similar vintage which it seems perverse not to count as frigates (Ikara-conversion Leanders; Amazons). So, I think what I'm trying to say is that I think this is still a frigate. FWIW. |
dragon6 | 04 Mar 2014 5:18 p.m. PST |
Did the USN ever buy Penguins for the SH-60? If not the helos are only good for ASW and scouting |
Katzbalger | 04 Mar 2014 7:33 p.m. PST |
A little off topic, but: "The ship leaked 175 gallons from its prop" Does that line in the original article confuse anyone else? Rob |
carne68 | 04 Mar 2014 9:28 p.m. PST |
Lets not forget, the Oliver Hazard Perry only has one engine, so when it goes, well, you need a tow truck. Two turbines, one shaft. The APU's could let you limp home at about 4 Knots. Keep in mind the sonar and that the torpedoes are really anti-submarine weapons. The two helicopters give tremendous ASW capability and take up a lot of space. Its real purpose was always ASW, and it provides excellent capability, despite its age. The Mk.46 torpedo has a much shorter range than any sub launched torpedo and a smaller warhead. Only about half of the class received the stretched hull to operate SH-60's, the rest lost helicopter capabilities with the retirement of the LAMPS II, in the 1990's. As for the sonar suite, our ST's called it "Helen Keller" for a reason. "The ship leaked 175 gallons from its prop"Does that line in the original article confuse anyone else? From the hydraulics used to control the variable pitch screw. The last helicopter to land on the Fitch was a Dutch Navy Wasp during STANAVFORLANT in 1996. The last US helicopters she carried were 4 Army OH-58's to Haiti. Matt GMG1(SW) USN FFG-34 1996-1997 |
EvilBen | 05 Mar 2014 8:07 a.m. PST |
Many thanks for that post, Matt. Most enlightening. Cheers Ben |
carne68 | 05 Mar 2014 10:15 p.m. PST |
Standard load out for the Mk.13 would be: 34 SM-1 4 Harpoon 1 training shape (dummy missile) 1 cell left empty to facilitate maintenance |
skaran | 08 Mar 2014 11:42 p.m. PST |
Comparing that to the ones still in service with the RAN, Sydney is listed as having 1 x OTO Melara 3 in (76 mm)/62 US Mk 75 1 x 20 mm Mk 15 Vulcan Phalanx anti-missile system 6 x 12.7 mm MGs 2 x Rafael Mini-Typhoon 12.7 mm remote-controlled guns (for selected deployments). 6 x Mk 32 (2 triple) tubes Mk 41 VLS launcher presumably for the Harpoon Block 2 and Standard SM-2 Block IIIA missiles carried and 2 x Sikorsky S-70B-2 Seahawks or 1 x Seahawk and 1 x Squirrel helicopters She's getting a bit long in the tooth now having commission in 1983 and is one of the vessels to be replaced by the Hobart class Air Warfare Destroyers. |
Rev Zoom | 17 Mar 2014 5:30 p.m. PST |
All the Penguins have been removed (I believe they have been retired). The remaining Perry frigates have a very nice minigun up front where the Mark 13 used to be. |