bluenotebooks | 27 Feb 2014 4:26 p.m. PST |
I have painted a few miniatures in the past but didn't have anyone to play with at the time so gave up on it. I'd like to try again since my girlfriend has agreed to play with me. I have a ton of craft paints and will be buying some decent brushes in the appropriate sizes. I don't wish to spend much money on miniatures giving the hobby a try though. After looking around for a while I'm really interested in the Emhar Vikings and Saxons. I like the look of the figures and I like this era. If I were to buy a box of each of these would there be rules that would work with this number of figures? If so, what rules would you recommend? I definitely want rules where one figure = one man and would prefer the figures to be mounted individually as I just like the look of that much more. If I needed to buy maybe two boxes of each I'd be open to that as well since they are relatively cheap. I'd be willing to pay 20 or so dollars for a good set of rules since they are something I can get a lot of use out of if I find I really enjoy the hobby, although free rules would certainly be nice as well. So I'd appreciate any recommendations you guys have. I'd also be open to other historical periods as well as long as the miniatures I can use are the 1/72 plastic ones as I believe this what I want to play with regardless of rules or period. I'm not interested in modern combat such as WWI or more recent. And one last thing; I don't have much space in my small apartment so I'd need something that can play on an area no larger than 3 x 3 if possible. Thanks any advance for any advice you can provide. -Josh |
JimDuncanUK | 27 Feb 2014 5:04 p.m. PST |
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Tarantella | 27 Feb 2014 5:05 p.m. PST |
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JSears | 27 Feb 2014 5:15 p.m. PST |
Welcome to the hobby! 1/72nd plastics are a great way to test the waters, and you'll get a ton of use out of them, both at the small skirmish size battles it sounds like you want to try and as the basis for larger armies if you decide to expand in the future. I'm sure others will have more extensive advice, but it sounds like Saga would fit the bill for you. It's geared for small scale dark ages skirmishes, seems to be easy for newcomers (like your girlfriend) to get into, and is designed to play on smaller tables (4x4 I think is the standard size). Now the cons of Saga. It breaks your 20 dollar price limit (I believe the rules are roughly twice that), and it "requires" custom dice which are not cheap. Don't let the custom dice throw you off, the game is perfectly playable with regular six sided dice. And while 40+ bucks might seem steep, it's a one time outlay that should serve you for years of playing. As an alternative I recommend Song of Blades and Heroes, which sells for less than Saga, fits many of your requirements, but is designed for fantasy. Song of Blades and Heroes is highly malleable and it would be simple to "file the serial numbers off" so to speak, and reskin the various goblins, dwarves and trolls as Vikings and Saxons. Oh, one last note. Don't sweat the scale. I'm sure 28mm, 20mm (1/72nd), 15mm are all viable regardless of what skirmish rules you pick |
Chris Palmer | 27 Feb 2014 5:24 p.m. PST |
My advice
.she's a keeper. Any girlfirend that agrees to play wargames with you is not to be let go lightly. |
JezEger | 27 Feb 2014 5:24 p.m. PST |
Welcome on the road to madness. Soon you won't be able to throw any rubbish away because you know it will come in useful for scenery one day. Those couple of boxes of minis will turn into a mountain that will eat into your living space. Two games spring to mind, easy to pick up and fun. First is cry havoc. Originally a boardgame played on hexes with card counters, you can easily convert to the tabletop. You'll need some hex paper as a surface, but you can download this from the net. link Second is Song of Blades and Heroes. Probably the simplest, yet very elegant, system out there. Again, the emphasis is on a fun game, not pages of tables and charts. ganeshagames.net |
Oh Bugger | 27 Feb 2014 5:40 p.m. PST |
Check out DBA and visit the Fanaticus Forum just google Fanaticus. |
Happy Little Trees | 27 Feb 2014 6:18 p.m. PST |
I third Song of Blades and Heroes for starters. It'll play well in the area you have and there are a number of variations for other periods using the same general system, assuming of course, you like the system. |
bluenotebooks | 27 Feb 2014 6:20 p.m. PST |
Thanks for all the great suggestions. And if you have anymore I'm not opposed to more complicated rules as I've played a lot of complex boardgames. My girlfriend is crazy intelligent so I doubt she would be intimidated either. I checked out ganesha games and thought song of drum and shakos looked pretty cool. Are there 1/72 plastics I could use for that game? If so, what exactly should I buy? I also checked out DBA and it looks pretty cool but the figures represent large units in that game correct? Is saga expensive to get into? I couldn't find what miniatures is need for it? Is it possible to do it in plastic? One other thing I came across is dux britanicus. Or I believe that's what it is called. How many figures would I need for it and could I do it with plastics? Sorry for the hundred questions, just trying to make sure I find a fun rule set and don't end up buying something I can't actually play a game with and get frustrated from the start. |
thosmoss | 27 Feb 2014 7:40 p.m. PST |
I was going to recommend Saga. > Is saga expensive to get into? You can see it over at Architects of War: architectsofwar.com The game itself isn't too pricy, but the custom dice do add up quickly. There are ways to make your own dice, but the seduction of those quality, custom made cubes are going to make your wallet cry. > I couldn't find what miniatures is need for it? Is it possible to do it in plastic? Certainly. While AoW promotes their favorite (and very pretty) lines of figures, you can come to the game with anything. |
Happy Little Trees | 27 Feb 2014 7:52 p.m. PST |
DBA is meant to be large scale battles with 40-50 figures representing the whole army. If you can wrap your head around the abstractions it's a lot of fun. Some people disagree. Dux Britanniarum by Too Fat Lardies is set in 5th century Britain. Starting forces are 40-45 figures, but the armies expand as the campaign goes on. There is a video explaining some of the basics here: YouTube link They don't seem to have made a Part II, at least I didn't find it. |
MAD MIKE | 27 Feb 2014 8:09 p.m. PST |
Seeing as you're new to the hobby you might not be aware of Plastic Soldier Review. This site is indispensable for small scale plastics. link |
John Thomas8 | 27 Feb 2014 8:34 p.m. PST |
If you're interested in a bit more depth and history, I highly recommend Dux Britanniarum and the upcoming Raiders supplement for you Viking tastes and Sharp Practice for your Napoleonic/AWI/ACW interests. A box of plastics a side and you're ready to play. |
Toaster | 27 Feb 2014 9:26 p.m. PST |
For Song of Drums and Shakes there are plenty of 1/72 plastics and they work fine. When I started playing it I used them (a friend had a large collection) until I could get my own 28mm (Perry and Victrix) since that matched my existing scenery. Just check your local model shop you should be spoiled for choice. Robert |
DesertScrb | 27 Feb 2014 9:35 p.m. PST |
Take a look at Swordplay by Two Hour Wargames. It's designed for skirmish gaming with a small number of figures, and it's FREE. You can find it here: link |
Timotheous | 27 Feb 2014 10:45 p.m. PST |
All of these suggestions are very, very good. I myself am partial to the Ganesha games series, especially Song of Drums and Shakos. For Dark Ages gaming though, I would recommend Song of Arthur and Merlin, and use the welsh king version or historical king version. SOAM is now a stand-alone game. Then, when you have enough figures painted, put your individually-mounted troops on movement trays and play Dux Bellorum by Dan Mersey (same guy who wrote SOAM!). |
uglyfatbloke | 28 Feb 2014 2:57 a.m. PST |
saga is OK and fits the bill for your limited space and small armies, but it's rather gimmicky and if the history side of things is important to you then you should maybe try something else; there are buckets of free wargame rules, so once again you're spoilt for choice. You may find craft paints won't really do so well. Good quality paint is n't that expensive, you don't need that great a range and a little goes a very long way. |
bluenotebooks | 28 Feb 2014 3:12 a.m. PST |
Thank you again for all the great information. I think right now I'm leaning toward either Song of Arthur and Merlin or Drums and Shakos. Doing a little more searching of the forum I came across a set of rules called Brink of Battle that looks pretty if a bit pricy. I haven't found much information on them though. Are they a good set of rules? |
JJMicromegas | 28 Feb 2014 3:24 a.m. PST |
Welcome to the hobby. Understand that everything in this thread is personal opinion so take it with a grain of salt. I think 1/72 is a really good choice for starters because of the price, availability and some very good sculpts. If you ever get involved with the greater gaming community you will find matching scales is a challenge but if you are playing with your gf then it's a great way to go. As for game I would highly recommend SAGA, if the two of you have experience with more complex board games and like a thinky game then you will enjoy them. They are the rare type of rules that have simple and easy to learn mechanics yet provide complexity through the many options an combinations available to you. The figure requirement is between 20-40 so it fits your requirements. I would not recommend buying the SAGA dice at the beginning, they are more of a 'nice to have' rather than 'must have'. 6-sided dice work quite well and you can draw a little diagrams to match the 6-sided dice to the SAGA dice. |
R Dean | 28 Feb 2014 6:21 a.m. PST |
We just had a day where we gathered to play Saga, Song of Blades and Heroes, and Battle Troll in comparison: bucksurdu.com/blog/?p=2542 |
Edwulf | 28 Feb 2014 7:03 a.m. PST |
Saga looks good. You might want to track down Age Of Blood. Its free and downloadable. |
nochules | 28 Feb 2014 8:14 a.m. PST |
I would recommend SAGA as well. It really is a cross between a Euro-game and a miniatures game, so you two should pick up (and enjoy) the concepts pretty easily. That does make it stand out a bit from most traditional miniatures games, which is where the "gimmicky" comment probably comes from. As to the figures, it is generally played with 25/28mm figures, but there is no reason 1/72 would not work. The figure mix from the Emhar boxes looks good. The only thing is that archers come in units of 12, so you will have to pool all the archer figures from the two sets and give them to one side (probably the Saxons). |
Timotheous | 28 Feb 2014 2:03 p.m. PST |
Keep in mind also that if you pick up SAGA, if you decide to use the special dice sets, there is a different set for each army, so add another $30 USD-40 to the price of the rules. Of course, as somene above has said, you can play with normal d6. |
BlackWidowPilot | 28 Feb 2014 2:38 p.m. PST |
Welcome to the hobby, Josh! 1/72 scale is a perfect entry point, as (1) the prices are easy on the wallet, (2) a single box of figures in some cases can provide everything you need for 1 to 1 scale skirmish games, and (3) its easy to build up larger forces for bigger battles and more variety of troop types. Given the continuously growing number of subjects available in 1/72 scale plastics, you can really try out a new period for little effort, especially if you stay at the skirmish level of thing. Saga looks good for Dark Ages, while the classic Pig Wars is good for larger actions with 60 or more figures on a side (the figures move and fight in groups of circa 20 figures at full strength). For painting guides there's the Osprey Men-at-Arms series of books. Each title is focused on a specific subject or period, and included color plates of great help in guiding the hobbyist in painting. Most titles can be had for less than $20 USD a title. Each is about 80 pages in length including index, TOC, and is heavily illustrated throughout with black and white photos and line drawings. Hope all this helps, and again, welcome to the hobby! Leland R. Erickson Metal Express metal-express.net
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Stew art | 28 Feb 2014 4:02 p.m. PST |
Brink of Battle is also a very good skirmish game that lets you tinker with the soldiers. It's a little more invovled than SOAM but I like that, as I found the Song of.. series a little too much abstraction and I find that people either love or hate the rolling for activation mechanic. -Stew |
Oh Bugger | 01 Mar 2014 4:57 a.m. PST |
"I also checked out DBA and it looks pretty cool but the figures represent large units in that game correct?" Yeah that's right but its the base that counts. If you want one figure per base and to think of that as one figure = one man the system will still work. Its cheap easy to learn and much more subtle than it first appears. An ideal starter set. Comitatus and Dux Bellorum are also good self contained sets. The latter might suit you very well. |
Khaki08 | 01 Mar 2014 3:33 p.m. PST |
Don't forget Phil barker wrote a specific set of skirmish ancient rules De Bellis Velitum which would work for Vikings. Not played them yet but they look good fun, and free! Here.. link |
Marshal Mark | 01 Mar 2014 4:09 p.m. PST |
I would recommend Saga. The rules themselves are relatively pricey, and it is at the game end of the game-simulation scale, but it is a great game. I wouldn't play with normal D6s instead of Saga dice, but you can make your own relatively cheaply – I made a set of each of the four basic sets for about £10.00 GBP (circular stickers printed with the symbols and stuck onto coloured dice). SoBH is a great fantasy skirmish but I wouldn't recommend it for Vikings vs Saxons as I feel it would be a bit bland without the fantasy element and it also works best at a low figure count. DBA (and also Dux Bellorum which has been mentioned) are big battle sets which do not meet your requirements for one figure = one man. |
Marshal Mark | 01 Mar 2014 4:14 p.m. PST |
Also my Warband rules are ideal for the sort of battles you are looking for. They are designed for large dark age skirmishes of around 50 figures per side. They are free, but do require a hex map or board to play. As you're from a board gaming background they might prove to be a good transition into miniature wargaming. More information (including how to get the rules) can be found on my website here : link |
CPBelt | 01 Mar 2014 4:58 p.m. PST |
If you are still following this thread
I'll put in a vote of using GW's Lord of the Rings rules. Sounds crazy, but a very versatile ruleset. Perfect for new gamers. Just sub in Dark Age figures for the Tolkien figures, after all Middle Earth is Dark Age. IIRC Rohan is Normans? Anyway, plus you could use it for fantasy. The rules can be had for dirt cheap! This auction is $5 USD for the Fellowship rulebook. That tends to be the price. There are some later books for each movie as well. auction What could be better? :-) |
Whitwort Stormbringer | 01 Mar 2014 7:51 p.m. PST |
SAGA seems like the go-to for the period at the moment, but if it doesn't appeal to you then I heartily second the above recommendation to use Games Workshop's Lord of the Rings rules. They are my favorite set of skirmish rules for any melee-focused skirmish game, and even without the fantasy elements are a lot of fun (I'd say most of our Middle-Earth games don't involve much, if any, magic or fantasy creatures). |
HarryHotspurEsq | 03 Mar 2014 12:39 p.m. PST |
Certainly I echo the recommendations for Song of Blades and Heroes and it's variants. 5-12 figures per warband and plays on a 3'x3' surface (for 28mm figures, smaller the figures, smaller the space). Rules for under a tener if bought as a pdf. Well worth looking into. Fantasy: link Ancients: link Arthurian: link Swashbuckling: link Napoleonic: link |
bluenotebooks | 04 Mar 2014 11:13 a.m. PST |
Just want to thank all of you again for the great suggestions. I have decided to purchase Song of Blades and Heroes. I decided to go a totally different direction with the miniatures I purchased. I bought the Caesar Elves and Goblins and some bases from Wargames Factory. They should be in this week. I'll be sure to start a thread with some pictures once I get them painted. |
John Pwh | 04 Apr 2014 2:21 p.m. PST |
Tod Kirshners Pig Wars. Fun, Dark ages skirmish rules. Available online. Yahoo Pig Warriors is a list where miniatures gamers who play Tod Kershner's Pig Wars rules can share house rules and scenarios and interact on all other aspects related to the game like figure reviews, painting tips, and terrain creation. |