"Casting People of Color in Arthurian Film and Television" Topic
16 Posts
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Tango01 | 25 Feb 2014 12:44 p.m. PST |
"In the quotation above, Finke and Shichtman attempt to explain assumptions a contemporary audience might bring to Gil Junger's film Black Knight. The title of the movie alone highlights race as a key issue in the film. Martin Lawrence's character Jamal is out of place for many reasons: he is a twenty-first century American man who has time-traveled hundreds of years into the past of a distant country. However, the film's advertising campaign specifically focused on his race as a distinguishing feature. Racial difference between his character and the white society he visits remains a central issue throughout the film and is frequently a source of humor. The way the film uses race as the basis for comedy raises the question of why it should be considered funny to cast a black actor in a film set in the medieval period. Must actors of color be portrayed as the "Other" when (or if) given roles in films made in the West about the European Middle Ages?
" Full article here. link Amicalement Armand |
Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut | 25 Feb 2014 1:02 p.m. PST |
But no mention of the Moor in the Costner version of Robin Hood? How common were people from Africa or the Middle East in medieval Europe? Certainly merchants would be making the rounds, at least. How hung up were medieval Europeans about skin colour? |
Grand Dragon | 25 Feb 2014 1:07 p.m. PST |
There was actually a black knight at King Arthur's court , Sir Palomides ( rather than The Black Knight of Monty Python fame ). He was supposed to be ' Moorish ' in origin so this would have meant he would have been black skinned like Othello. |
darthfozzywig | 25 Feb 2014 1:17 p.m. PST |
That's an interesting read, but it overlooks the example of the stage. Live theatre has a better track record of diverse casting and audience acceptance. I think (again, IMO) we perceive film and stage in very difference ways. I don't blink at a black Shakespearean performer but a black Heimdall in "Thor" was somehow jarring for a moment. A difference in how we perceive what we're seeing in the medium perhaps. None of that necessarily invalidates the author's work, but it's an observation I've had before. |
Garand | 25 Feb 2014 1:58 p.m. PST |
I didn't have a problem with a black Heimdall in Thor because it was a comic book movie, and the movie expressly makes the Asgardians as aliens rather than actual gods. If it was played straight, with the Asgardians as actual gods interacting with Vikings, it would be more jarring for me IMHO. I think a big difference between theater and tv/movies is the immersion factor. With theater, the play is limited by the props and sets you can fit on the stage. Thus even if the props are well made, they're still props on a stage. TV/Movies, however, can have much more elaborate props and sets, or even be filmed on location in historical surroundings. Thus the immersion factor is higher IMHO, and the mechanism for viewing looks more like a window than a stage. I wouldn't blink twice if I went to see Shakespere's Caesar with the title cast with a non-Caucasian actor, but if it was in a movie, played straight for the historical period, it would be jarring. That being said, if the play was a reinterpretation set in New York City present day, and a non-Caucasian was cast as Caesar, I would be more willing to accept that. Damon. |
tberry7403 | 25 Feb 2014 2:40 p.m. PST |
"Abe Lincoln?" "No! I said,'Hey Blinken.' " I remember, way back in the before-time, an episode of "Robin Hood" (with Richard Greene as the title character) with a samurai in it.
Gawd I'm old. |
Rudi the german | 25 Feb 2014 3:10 p.m. PST |
Heimdall and Thor are gods according to the asatru religion. I thought that religious topics are off limits here? nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ásatrú |
tberry7403 | 25 Feb 2014 3:33 p.m. PST |
"
and the movie expressly makes the Asgardians as aliens rather than actual gods." |
Sir Walter Rlyeh | 25 Feb 2014 5:06 p.m. PST |
Saint Maurice, the patron saint of the Infantry is portrayed as a knight of color. |
Pictors Studio | 25 Feb 2014 5:14 p.m. PST |
I saw a version of MacBeth where the eponymous character was played by a black actor. You didn't really notice it after a couple of minutes. A lot of the cast was black actually. |
DeHewes | 25 Feb 2014 6:22 p.m. PST |
Well there is diversity for diversity's sake which is often a poor reason for casting or character choices – I am thinking of the now mandatory inclusion of a Moorish or African character in Robin Hood mythos. It may work in Arthurian stories. The Romans possibly stationed African soldiers in Britain which might account for certain genetic markers in the modern day: link With that in mind, Bernard Cornwell's Numidian character Sagramor in his Arthurian trilogy added to the story in a realistic manner. |
Space Monkey | 25 Feb 2014 10:26 p.m. PST |
I've wondered
if a Japanese director wanted to make a gladiator movie, would he try to cast it with plausible non-Japanese actors? Would anyone in the Japanese audience care? |
goragrad | 26 Feb 2014 12:24 a.m. PST |
Why is their always this supposition that 'Moors' are Sub-saharan Africans or that the term refers to 'black' Africans? From Wiki – The Moors were the medieval Muslim [1] inhabitants of Morocco, western Algeria, Western Sahara, Mauritania, the Iberian Peninsula, Sicily, and Malta. From Dictionary dot com – Moor [moor] Show IPA noun 1. a Muslim of the mixed Berber and Arab people inhabiting NW Africa.2. a member of this group that invaded Spain in the 8th century a.d. and occupied it until 1492. Origin: 1350–1400; Middle English More < Middle French, variant of Maure < Latin Maurus < Greek Maûros
From Merriam Webster -
Moor noun \ˈmu̇r\: a member of a group of North African Arab people who ruled parts of Spain from the eighth century until 1492 Full Definition of MOOR 1 : one of the Arab and Berber conquerors of Spain 2 : berber — Moor·ish adjective See Moor defined for English-language learners » See Moor defined for kids » Origin of MOOR Middle English More, from Anglo-French, from Latin Maurus inhabitant of Mauretania First Known Use: 14th century Why is anyone from south of the Mediterranean/Africa assumed to be black these days? Now in the 1500s the term 'Blackamoor' was coined. Again from Merriam Webster - black·a·moor noun \ˈbla-kə-ˌmu̇r\Definition of BLACKAMOOR : a dark-skinned person; especially : black 4a See blackamoor defined for kids » Origin of BLACKAMOOR irregular from black + Moor First Known Use: 1547 And Dictionary dot com which finds the term blackamoor offensive - black·a·moor [blak-uh-moor] Show IPA noun Older Use: Disparaging and Offensive. 1. a contemptuous term used to refer to a black person.2. a contemptuous term used to refer to any dark-skinned person. Origin: 1540–50; unexplained variant of phrase black Moor Usage note So-called blackamoors, or black Moors, were originally black people from North Africa who worked as servants and slaves in wealthy European households. The negative connotation of the term comes from its historical association with servitude and from the perception that black Moors were strangely exotic. In 1596, Queen Elizabeth I targeted them for deportation.
Which fits my presumption as to its origin when I first heard the term. Why would one coin the term 'blackamoor' if Moors were black?
It is somewhat amusing that the current casting practices for 'Moors' discriminate against Moors. So to the OP what you would see in a properly cast 'Arthurian' or Middle Ages setting that included a 'Moor' would be a North African of some sort. Although as the Moorish Muslim forces that conquered Spain did include black Africans it would be possible that some made their way further north. On the other hand, I recently saw a history of a black African who was brought to Vienna in the 1700s as a slave, gained his freedom, and became a notable in the cities social circle – he became Grand Master of the Masonic Lodge that Mozart belonged to. In point of fact he and Mozart were friends. However, blacks were so unusual at that time in Austria that when he died his body was skinned and stuffed and placed in the museum of natural history
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M C MonkeyDew | 26 Feb 2014 7:43 a.m. PST |
I've often wonder how a film about indigenous Africans with Caucasians cast in many of the roles would fly. Not the old Hollywood practice of trying to disguise Caucasians as other races, but the modern practice of not even trying. Jason Stratham as Shaka Zulu? Alex Baldwin as Idi Amin? How about a remake of Gods and Generals with Morgan Freeman as Jackson, and Jack Black as his slave? That would make a great picture even better : ) |
StygianBeach | 26 Feb 2014 1:00 p.m. PST |
I do not like seeing ethnically incongruous peoples within medieval settings, unless its given context. Whether that is Europeans in Japan, Sub Saharan Africans in Europe, or whatever. I especially do not like it if they are portrayed as poor locals. If they are dressed as traders/diplomats or a ships crew in a port town, I don't have the same problem. A Roman/Mediterranean setting is enough context for me to accepts any ethnicity west of India as a local, anyone East of India should have a reason for being there though. I also find myself feeling uncomfortable in the same manner with accents. It is one of the things I really appreciate in Game of Thrones the tv series. |
goragrad | 26 Feb 2014 4:57 p.m. PST |
Well, unless it was one of my other comments from yesterday on Tango, I seem to have offended with my previous comment here – two new stifles (too long perhaps)
To continue then, it bothers me on a historical/ethnic basis to see any miscasting. Wes Studi is a good (great?) actor, but he is not a Navajo or Apache – I went to school with both – and should not have been cast as Geronimo or in the PBS Mystery tv movie as a Navajo tribal policeman. Same thing with Russel Means in Last of the Mohicans – he is definitely a Plains Indian, not a Eastern Forest native. Same with Asians or any other group with distinct sub groupings (although I have seen some recent Chinese historicals with Japanese actors in the credits
). Of course the gratuitous adding of an anomalous ethnicity/race to a piece is rather different than miscasting members of subgroups – that is rather more a case of 'they all look alike to me.' The former is rather more a bit of historical revisionism. Now on the other hand, my sister-in-law watched a dark humored (was going to say 'black comedy' but don't want to offend further) movie about a couple of Irish grave robbers set in 1800s Edinburgh a few weeks ago. In it one of the female leads puts on a all female musical production of 'Macbeth.' Now that is the way to do it – just throw history out the window and create a fantasy. Just like the OP, instead of rewriting history, get a scriptwriter to create something like 'Game of Thrones' and put whatever ethnicities/races you want in it. Whoops, another over long post
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