OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 10:10 a.m. PST |
I've downloaded the rules from their website but it looks like I've got the 2nd ed rules and fleetbooks 1 and 2. I'm new to FT but from my understanding FT2.5 also includes More Trust which came after 2nd ed but before FB1/2. More Thrust is not available on the website for free. I could buy it but what am I missing here? If you need it and it is out of print why isn't it on their website? Does anyone have a download for it? Also I found FT Cross Dimensions which appears to include all of the above with a couple of house rules. Is that variant popular? Ideally I'd like to phsyically own all of the books. |
Allen57 | 23 Feb 2014 10:20 a.m. PST |
Suggest you post your questions on the Starship Combat News website's message boards. Lots of friendly folks and probably the best place to get your answer. Al |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 10:23 a.m. PST |
Thanks but I have no idea what that is which is why I posted here :( |
Allen57 | 23 Feb 2014 10:28 a.m. PST |
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Cold Steel | 23 Feb 2014 10:39 a.m. PST |
You can also check out the FT FB page, esp. the Files section. link |
Cold Steel | 23 Feb 2014 12:00 p.m. PST |
Too bad you didn't post a few days earlier. There was a con in Pensacola this weekend that had several FT games and tournaments. |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 12:53 p.m. PST |
Yeah I'm in Gulf Breeze right next to Pensacola. I spent the $90 USD fee for Pensacon on my first fleet instead. I bought $400 USD worth of Fate Amenable to Change ships and GZG fighters. On that note, FATC guy noted that the Vaygr Kickstarter should start at some point and if that's successful the Hiigaran line will get a badly needed (imho) expansion to its line (carriers). At any rate I've tracked down the FT yahoo and FB groups and joined up. I have the Cross Dimensions with Continuum and Warlords variants of the rules now. I'm really liking the Warlords one especially with the whole tech level scheme. This game seems extremely rewarding both in terms of modeling and gaming. I'm half tempted to sell off my complete collection of Seekrieg 5 rules just to fund this project some more. |
TheBeast | 23 Feb 2014 1:25 p.m. PST |
More Thrust is not available on the website for free. I could buy it but what am I missing here? Most is covered in Fleet Books and the CD and Warlords stuff. Off the top of my head, not sure if missiles, as opposed to SML's are. Of course, everything is in vanilla second ed forms. If you need it and it is out of print why isn't it on their website? That I have NO answer; I consider it possible to get by without one or the other, but makes for a proper whole, all together. In the same vein, I suggest looking for The Babylon 5 Project: Earthforce Sourcebook. The space battle rules are co-written by Jon Tuffley, and has a somewhat different point of view (some finding into the Warlords, if I recall right). It's actually thought the best of the lot by a limited group. Doug |
jimklein1966 | 23 Feb 2014 2:57 p.m. PST |
OmniJackal- Pensacon was good. Didnt know it was 90 for the weekend. Thought it wss only $75 USD or $50 USD if you pre-ordered. It wsd only $30 USD at the door for one day. Anyway we'll be doing alot of FT at Pelcon again this year. We also play at bobes hobby house on most weekends. Look us up on face book or PM me. The rules we use are FT:CrossDimensions with the Continuum supplement. We also use the warlords tech list as well but thats been incoorperated into the FT:Continuum capmpaighn system (as yet unpublished and needs more playtesting). Look forward To seeing your fleet ! |
Covert Walrus | 23 Feb 2014 3:06 p.m. PST |
FB2 contains the design rules for most equipment mentioned in More Thrust, but More Thrust has detailed descriptions of such systems as troop transport ( Cryosleep versus live) and how to link that into Dirtside 2 and Hellfire games. Basically covered in Cross Dimensions, apart from the no Aliens rule there . . . Handy to have though if you enjoy FT :) |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 3:19 p.m. PST |
@jim – Thank you for specifying that you're using FT:XD with Continuum. A post you made in the Yahoo group for Pensacon gave a download for the Warlords version of the game and that is what I assumed you guys were using. You just saved me a headache of having to redesign ships. |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 4:03 p.m. PST |
So far I'm not seeing anything in the XD/Continuum version for capital class and dorsal weapon systems or rotated fire arcs for ships focused on broadside combat rather than frontal combat. These are both extremely important to the design I envisioned for my fleet which I wanted to have powerful broadside weaponry that could fire 180° to either side of the ship and a single dorsal weapon that fired to front. My destroyers or strike cruisers were going to have single dorsal systems installed and were meant to be hit fast hit hard glass cannons. Are capital weapons, dorsal weapons, and rotated fire arcs in XD/Continuum? If they are I guess I just havn't read far enough. I'm not building a cheese fleet or anything (I am NOT a min/maxer) but know exactly how I want my fleet to function. I've even started formulating their history and after looking over non-canonical star maps may have selected a region for them to occupy. |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 5:37 p.m. PST |
NVM I found the spinal mounts finally in Continuum with, coincidentally enough, a picture of Homeworld ships right next to it. Nothing in here at all about rotated fire arcs unfortunately which is a bit upsetting. One last question if anyone can help me. The XD/Continuum rules state that I can buy Class 3 beams for 4 mass and can add +1 mass per extra arc. Well the broadsides in these rules only have 2 arcs total yet this says that broadsides cost 6 mass which is the same as TWO extra arcs! Am I correct in assuming that that 6 mass price for broadsides is for a pair of Class 3 Beams, one to port and one to starboard? |
jimklein1966 | 23 Feb 2014 6:46 p.m. PST |
Not sure exactly whay you mean by the term rotated firing arcs. Can you clarify? In the case of 'broadside' weapons the rules mean weapons with 120 degree fire arcs to the sides of the ship. Class 3 beams come with one 60 degree arc already so when you buy the second that gives you the full 120. 4 mass (the gun with one arc) plus 1 mass for the second arc for a toatl of 5. The Continuum rules modify smaller weapons (such as class 2s), that normally have a minimum of three arcs, so they can fire in broadsides. The idea was to allow players to build ships fromBattlefleet Gothic and ships like ur wanting to desighn. Does that help any? Not sure if i'm explaining it clearly. My brain is pretty fried from the con rt now
lol |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 8:03 p.m. PST |
Here's what I mean. The broadside rules in XD/Cont allow a battery to fire broadside but, with the exception of twin particle arrays, this allows a 120° broadside arc to BOTH sides of the ship. This causes a few issues for me. One is that a battery that can fire broadside to both port and starboard is obviously mounted centerline. Two is that for that battery to traverse from port to starboard it must rotate through the frontal arc so why wouldn't it be allowed to fire through that arc? Three is that I want a broadside battery that is mounted on either side of the centerline similar to how the twin particle array is set up where there is a pair of them but one fires only port and the other only fires starboard. This is where rotated firing arc comes in. In the Warlords rules variant you are allowed to rotate the entire fire arc of a weapon system by 30°. So instead of having fore, fore port, fore starboard, aft port, aft starboard, and aft you will have fore port, fore starboard, port, starboard, aft port, aft starboard. This allows my long ships with batteries mounted on either side of the centerline the ability to track a full 180° to either side of the ship (accounting of course for the black hole that is ship baffles). Using my outstanding photoshop skills, I have illustrated what I mean by rotated arcs for true broadside capability for weapons not mounted centerline. The broadside currently in the game simulates broadside batteries like cannons on sailing ships. The way I want it to be, the way I am allowed to do it in Warlords better simulates turrets that can traverse anywhere but can't fire on the other side of the ship.
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jimklein1966 | 23 Feb 2014 9:31 p.m. PST |
Ahhh, i gotcha. We have never had a situation where rotating the bases (thats what we call it) has been necessary but i dont see why not. Just do it. Being able to tell where the arc for the ships baffles are might be a bit tricky but shouldnt be a huge issue, esp if your using corsec bases or something similar. Also the 'broadside' weapon rules for class 2beams etc from XD was dropped in Continuum. In ur example a beam 3 would be 6 mass for a weapon that bears on one side of the ship. You might also want to look at the turret rules for other options too. Other than that i like where ur goinwith this and it would def be a unique fleet for our group. Are you trying to duplicate a particular genra, WYSIWYG 'ing' a specific model, or just ur imagination? |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 9:45 p.m. PST |
Sort of WYSIWYG. First off they're Hiigaran ships from the Homeworld 2 video game. The battlecruisers could fire in any arc but that just seems boring to me. This forces the use of planning and tactics. I'm in the process of building the battleship's stats right now but as it stands it has 4x 3arc beam 3s and 4x beam 1s and a medium spinal beam cannon mated to 3fcs. I'm down to my last few points and can't decide if I want to spend it on a hangar bay (the models have hangars on them) or bump up the defense just a bit with a screen. |
OmniJackal | 23 Feb 2014 10:29 p.m. PST |
Ok I am pretty sure I went overboard and that it might suck but it's my first ship design. Slower but very powerful and technologically advanced race. Subject to change. Battleship Base Hull – 160M – 160P [256CPV] Hull Integrity – 30% – 48HP – 12/12/12/12HP – 48M – 96P FTL Drive – 16M – 32P Impulse Drive – Advanced – F3 – 24M – 72P Core Total – 88M – 360P 4x Beam3 – 3 arcs – 24M – 72P 4x Beam1 – all arcs – 4m – 12P 1x Medium Spinal Beam – 16m – 64P 1x Flight Deck – 3M – 9P 1x Standard Hangar – Capacity 6 – 6m – 18P 6x Interceptor – Long Range – 24P 2x FCS – Advanced – 2M – 10P Offense Total – 55M – 209P 4x DCP – 20P 3x PDS – 3M – 9P 1x Screen – 8M – 24P 6x Armor – Regenerative – 6HP – 6M – 24P Defense Total – 17M – 77P Ship Total – 160M – 646P – 742CPV |
jimklein1966 | 24 Feb 2014 8:07 a.m. PST |
looks interesting if a bit pricey for a 160 mass ship. most of mine tend to be in thew 500 point range but theyre not as high tech either. One thing to rem abt the spinal mount- you can maneuver after it fires which may present some limitations. Also- is the armor in one row or layered? It would be fun to play against this and see what happens |
OmniJackal | 24 Feb 2014 9:00 a.m. PST |
One row. I didn't want to increase cost anymore. This was supposed to be a battleship not a dreadnought lol. I do worry about its thrust 3 as well. |
billclo | 24 Feb 2014 10:48 a.m. PST |
Maybe ditch the fighters, and increase the Thrust to 4? If you downgrade two of the Beam-3 to Beam 2, you can replace each Beam-3 (3-arc) with 3 Beam-2 (3-arc) batteries. So you lose 6 Beam-3 dice, and replace them with 12 beam-2 dice. You've still got the two Beam-3 batteries and the spinal mount for longer range use, but in close to moderate range you have 50% more firepower. |
jimklein1966 | 24 Feb 2014 10:52 a.m. PST |
Speed 3 may be a liability but w advanced engines maybe not as much. As for the fighters, if he's trying to duplicate something from Homeworld (i dont know anything abt it) he may not have any chioce |
OmniJackal | 24 Feb 2014 11:05 a.m. PST |
The beams swapping is actually a good idea. If I do that and swap in some beam2 the I will have primary, secondary, and tertiary batteries like a BB should have. |
billclo | 24 Feb 2014 12:19 p.m. PST |
Glad to be of help. :) Or have you considered some more advanced weapons in place of Beam weapons? Say Standard or Heavy Grasers? |
OmniJackal | 24 Feb 2014 1:05 p.m. PST |
I've considered them yes but for this first phase of design I'm sticking with beams as the bread and butter of my fleet. There are a few features that will be shared across most of the fleet and are key points to the faction which I might possibly call the Liandri Corporation (Unreal 2 inspiration). Beams in broadside batteries with rotated fire arc are the primary weapon of the fleet. This is augmented by either spinal beam cannons, plasma bolt launchers, or torpedoes which will have front fire arcs only. Specialist missile boats will have broadsides but will fire in 5 arcs since it is assumed that after launch the missiles will track to their targets. Key technologies Advanced drives – The way I am doing broadsides requires excellent maneuverability regardless of ship speed. The broadsides may seem like a gimp because only one side of the ship fires on a single ship at a time unless it is to the front. I may yet end up dropping broadsides to the standard 2 fire arc to either side mentioned in the rules in order to add more defense or an extra hangar for the capitals. Regenerative shell armor – High tech armor reduces the need for tons of it. Advanced FCS – Expensive but worth it considering how my ships will be bristling with beams. Here is the modified battleship. Further changes to it could be dropping the last 2 beam3 and doubling the beam2 to 8 leaving 4mass leftover for more armor! I'm starting to get the hang of this. Battleship Base Hull – 160Mass – 160Points [256CPV] Hull Integrity – 30% – 48HP – 12/12/12/12HP – 48Mass – 96Points FTL Drive – 16Mass – 32Points Impulse Drive – Advanced – F4 – 32Mass – 96Points Core Total – 96Mass – 384Points 2x Beam3 – 3 arcs – 12Mass – 36Points 4x Beam2 – 3 arcs – 8Mass – 24Points 4x Beam1 – all arcs – 4Mass – 12Points 1x Medium Spinal Beam – 16Mass – 64Points 1x Flight Deck – 3Mass – 9Points 1x Standard Hangar – Capacity 6 – 6Mass – 18Points 6x Interceptor – Long Range – 24Points 2x FCS – Advanced – 2Mass – 10Points Offense Total – 43Mass – 197Points 2x DCP – 10Points 3x PDS – 3Mass – 9Points 1x Screen – 8Mass – 24Points 10x Armor – Regenerative – Shell – 10HP – 5/5 – 10Mass – 50Points Defense Total – 21Mass – 93Points Ship Total – 160Mass – 674Points – 770CPV |
OmniJackal | 24 Feb 2014 4:55 p.m. PST |
Ok there needs to be a SSD building program that is updated to XD/Continuum standards in terms of rules and ship bits. This was hand built and there's no way I can ensure conformity across all my SSDs. So that's my last question for this thread. Where's updated ship builder/xls for XD/Continuum users?
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billclo | 24 Feb 2014 5:13 p.m. PST |
I do mine in Windows Paint, using a palate of icons, and a blank generic ship outline that I enlarge/reduce in size as needed. Like this:
Finished ship (playtest version of my Insectoids):
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OmniJackal | 24 Feb 2014 5:24 p.m. PST |
That's snazzy. I did mine in paint too. |
billclo | 24 Feb 2014 5:37 p.m. PST |
Bit of work, but once you have the basic palate setup (separate picture), you just use the blank template to do up ships and paste icons into it. |
OmniJackal | 24 Feb 2014 6:20 p.m. PST |
What are all the hex doohickeys surrounding the entire ship? |
TheBeast | 24 Feb 2014 6:36 p.m. PST |
I think bilco uses disperse shields in lieu of threshold boxes. Doug |
billclo | 24 Feb 2014 6:53 p.m. PST |
They are a new shield tech for my Insectoid ships. Basically each facet absorbs damage that would hit the hull, before the hull takes damage. So you'd figure line of sight to the target Insectoid ship, determine which shield facet will be hit, roll dice, score damage against the remaining shield boxes before you damage the hull. They are still in playtest, and we're determining the best way to handle certain weapons, and whether or not the shield stops beams from penetrating on a die roll of a "6". They are allowed to be slowly regenerated using a totally different procedure than "regenerating armor" in FT. More details to be released once we get some more playtesting in. :) The ships take threshold die rolls just like any other ship. |
OmniJackal | 24 Feb 2014 7:37 p.m. PST |
I like the idea a lot. I obviously havn't played FT yet but one thing that bothers me is that it is too simple in areas that really need not be abstracted. Case and point is weapons such as railguns being put under the torpedos category. I don't know why but that really bothers me. Railguns are so important in scifi that I feel they should have their own rules. One could argue that Kguns fill in that role but I see those as large caliber cannons. The railguns I envision are ones like on Eve Online which are near instant hitting pinpoint damage at very very long ranges. There are plenty of weapons in the game that are powerful at close range and get worse at longer ranges (all of them?) but none that are powerful at long range but can no longer track targets at close range. Just a thought should Mr. Klein decide to ever make anymore revisions in the future. FT3 seems like a pipe dream. |
jimklein1966 | 25 Feb 2014 7:50 a.m. PST |
We've dabbled with the long range improved accuracy weapon concept from time to and discovered the ships that mounted such weapons were actually at a disadvantage once their opponents closed the range. A smart opponent would do so very quickly. If you want to try it what we did was simply flop the pulse torp to hit chart around. points and mass are the same. |
OmniJackal | 25 Feb 2014 9:41 a.m. PST |
Wow Jim your group seems very accommodating a flexible. I like it. When's the next time you'll be at Bobe's? |
jimklein1966 | 25 Feb 2014 11:45 a.m. PST |
No place for rules lawyering around here
lol. Cant get up to the store this weekend but i should be up there on the 8th |