"Motherland Defender's Day" Topic

Today Sunday 23rd February is Motherland Defender's Day in Russia and many of the former Soviet Republics.

Spare a thought for the millions of Russians, Ukrainians and others in the Red Army and Red Banner Fleet who fought and sacrificed so much to bring the Nazis down – unlike their Western counterparts too many of them have no graves, no individual memorials.

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The Soviets lost over 20 million in WWII, more than all the other Allies combined. Their sacrifices will never be forgotten.

They paid a heavy price. Their sacrifice is legendary.

That figure of 20 million is widely disputed, and may in fact include Stalin's victims; and where did it get them? Russia now has a new Stalin in the making.

I always make a point of focusing on Russia when I teach the European part of WWII.

Although "all the other allies combined" seems to have forgotten the _other_ biggest ally . . .

Oh good! Someone making a political statement in a thread intended to remember the fallen.

The occasion itself is a political statement.

And lets remember that the people in the ex-Soviet Union who paid the highest price in that struggle were the Ukranians. My well wishes and support goes out to them, today, as they fight a new form of totalitarianism.

Do the Germans have a day like this? Seriously, how do they remember their dead?

Morrigan,
Totensonntag is observed on the last Sunday before Advent, so, normally, the last Sunday in November. It was instituted after the Napoleonic Wars so the date has nothing to do with the WWI Armistice. Strictly speaking Totensonntag commemorates all the dead, not only war dead.

Henry Martini,
Motherland Defender's Day was inaugurated in 1919 and applies to all of Russia's war dead, not only those in WWII.
So it is about as political as Remembrance Sunday, Memorial Day or ANZAC Day.
It is just a way of showing R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

Cheers,
Bertie

Thanks for that Bertie. My interest was genuine. When Germany's role in the wars is so often vilified, I'm glad that their fallen are remembered in some way.

It may well have started that way, Bertie, but bullies and tyrants will always find a way to appropriate public cultural property and pervert it to their own despicable ends.

Much the same as armchair experts will always find a way to espouse their personal political views I guess.

How many of those men lost their lives fighting Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and Finns?

Having read more and more; now that the Soviet archives have loosened availability, I am understanding the sacrifice they made in stopping facism. Looking at german divisions committed on the eastern front; I don't see how we would have gotten back on the continent without their help. This is ,of course, not about politics as it was defeating Hitler. Nuff said….
Respectfully,
Gunny

My Grandmother-in-law – All the way to Vienna – started as an AA gunner in Novorossisk and to Austria with a Ukrainian Guards Division as a HQ radio operator.

My Grandfather – Up the Italian penisula with a Scottish-Indian regiment (East side) to his eventual grave at Ancona.
(Scottish Rifles and Punjabi)

It would have been nice if to have the families meet to have celebrated VE day.

Defense of the Motherland Day (Red Army Day) became a day to celebrate men -because all men have to do National Service (though plenty of women served). They get March 8th instead.
VE Day is still celebrated in Russia, though many of the younger generation couldn't name who the Allies fought.

My son and I got a nice gift certificate (though I was only a Reservist in the US Army) to a nice bistro and a really nice box of Ceylon long leaf tea!

@Henry Martini – 23 to 25 million combatants and civilians died in WWII in Soviet Union. Stalin repressions are more difficult to verify and I've seen figures numbering from 2.5 to 11 million, from 1934 to 1953. Why I say it is difficult, because direct execution orders number to ca. 200000, but you can also starve people to death easily or write them off as the victims of pandemics. Not that it has anything to do with 23.02 day…
@Zakalwe64 – actually, the heaviest price was paid by Byelorussians, who lost more in % to the population than any other nation of the SU
@anleiher – you can actually get these figures easily. In 1939 Red Army lost less than 2ooo men during Polish operation…that is, in comparison to more than 600000 that were lost fighting Germans on Polish territory.
One of my grandfathers also finished the war in Vienna, as field artillery captain, while another was serving term in Gulag for being american spy from 1937 10 1953… (ok, he was in USA before WWI, but that's it).
Out of 5 brothers of my grandmother only one came back…was a fighter pilot in Murmansk. For most of Soviet families 23.02 as well as 09.05. are days to rememeber the fallen and glory of our relatives who gave eeverything fighting the most dangerous enemy we ever faced….

My point is psychological, not political; power hungry psychopaths will always adopt whatever political guise best serves their megalomaniacal and sadistic impulses.

This post was meant as a mark of respect for the fallen and in that it is no different to Armistice Day, Rememberance Sunday, Totensonntag, ANZAC day and many other days which I am not aware of.
Is it too much to ask that 1 day a year is given over to respect?
Those with political agendas have the other 364 days of the year to make their points, valid or not.
RIP to all the fallen whatever day you personally mark it.

Well said, Kiwi Dave.

In much the same way as armchair psychologists will analyse the motivations of others with clinical arrogance I guess.

Provost – I have no special expertise where home furnishings are concerned.

I'm curious as to what altruistic motivations you'd assign to Stalin et al. – but not sufficiently curious to revisit this 'conversation' for your insightful response.

Before exiting this thread I'll just make the bleedingly obvious final point that all wars are political: they're born of politics, they're sustained by politics, and the memory of their origins, causes, course and outcomes is putty in the hands of the politically motivated.

And commemorations of their victims, willing and otherwise, are no less inherently political, from their origins and foundations to their continuing place and role in the national/global psyche. Wars occur in a political context, not a political vacuum.

If you want evidence of the politicisation of the memory of war you only have to look at the way Howard and his successors have turned Anzac Day into a national religion, complete with identity-affirming pilgrimage, and done their utmost to make militarism the central nation-building myth.

Ultimately, there's no aspect of war that can be completely detached from politics and considered apolitically.

Over and out.

Mr Martini,

I dont assign any altruistic motivations to Stalin et al at all. I dont care.

"All wars are political" except those that are not. No doubt you could sit back and wax philisophical in order to draw some tenous link to politics in any way that suits you.

Just as well you wont be down the RSL on ANZAC day. I dare say your opinions wouldnt be appreciated.

As a serving member of the ADF, and having lost comrades very recently,I reserve the right to dispute your claim that remembering the fallen of any conflict is politically motivated.

Unlike you, I would venture that very few of those that fell had little political motivations if any at all. They just had the courage to pick up a weapon and fight or were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I took umbrage with your initial post in a thread designed to commemorate the sacrifice of millions and turning it into an anti Stalinist rant.

Your withdrawl from the conversation only highlights to me that you are scampering away from an untenable position.

The fact that you ended your last hoorah with "Over and out" only highlights to me that you have never served in any Defence force as anyone with a smattering of RATEL procedure would know that you cannot be over and out. You must have heard it in a Vic Morrow film.

Chin chin

Thanks Provost. As you have observed early on in the thread, its a shame that this post has been taken over in this way.

RIP to all that payed the ultimate price,who ever they fought for.
LES