"Saxon artillery (sneak preview)" Topic

Had to beat Armand to this.

I am assured this is a 4 pdr Schnellfeuergeschuetz…let's think…rapid/fast fire….. assault gun…like a Sturmgeschuetz………… and the marvellous casting manning it are Saxons. Part of the major increase in output that I am eagerly anticipating from Westfalia Miniatures when back from their break. (Grin)

Excellent. I foresee empty wallets.

Me too. just remember the spongeman belongs on the other side of the gun and, if following French practice, so does the lad with the slowmatch. I love the lace chevrons on the breeches

I have been toying with 3-figure "platoons" of German riflemen to attach to the 36-figure "German" battalions of the "German" Division of the 4th (French) Corps in Spain: 3 from Baden in green; 3 for Hessen in green; 3 for Nassau in green; 3 for Frankfurt in green. I might use Wurttemberg rifles; Westphalians; Nassau's of Waterloo era, etc.

I might commandeer at whole Saxon line battalion with a 4 pdr representing a section of 2.

I already had a slew of "imaginations" units for Spain in the units I painted incorrectly for the French! ie the Westphalian chevauleger with lances – which they never had!

Bonsoir

These look fabulous and I will have to buy some.

Just need to find someone who'd like to paint and base them!

Cheers,

Paul

it would really be great except these 4pounder fast fire guns were used by the horse artillery and not as battalion guns. Even more upsetting for me is that the Saxons in 1813 did not have battalion guns ….sighhhhhhhh. I would love to see what a couple of those guns could do to a battalion of prussians up close and personal.

Runicus

I'll be honest….it never even occurred to me that Saxon artillery might have fired at Prussians…….

I hesitate to admit that, though. German states, start of 19th C and shifting alliances, are beyond me….I'm a Waterloo sort. Now I think of it…Leipzig…oh yes. The Saxons did shift allegiances in extra time. I see what you mean. Funny old world……..

I imagine panic at Westfalia HQ now…..confess I have no idea about Saxon army (let alone artillery) (Nice figures though!)

"Had to beat Armand to this."

You won't. It'll be posted again. And again, etc….

I'm really looking forward to these. I've been working slowly on a Saxon division, so – Woohoo!

No Panic for Westfalia HQ.
The 4 pounder light gun "Schnellfeuergeschütz" was used as regimental gun in 1806.
Each saxon Regiment used 4 of these. Each Regiment consists of two Bataillons. Different from prussia regimental guns were served by artillery detachments.
In 1806 there were 50 regimental guns.
The horse artillery in 1806 was armed with heavy 4 pounder guns and 4 pounder "Granatstücken" which looked similar to the regimental guns.
In 1810 the saxon artillery was reorganised.
In 1812 the regimental artillery were already 4 pounder guns served by artillery men.
The Regiment Rechten was equipped with two prussian 3 pounders with ammunition caisson.

This means the 4 pounder Schnellfeuergechütz could be used until the beginning of 1813 where in the retreat last guns were lost.
For Leipzig for example it could not be used.
The uniform which Westfalia shows is correct from 1810 so could be used for 1812.

Somehow I did think they would be likely to get it right, but I suspect your detailed response is very reassuring as well! Thanks

Thanks for posting these over here. They're not 100% there yet but things are slowly falling into place. The plan for the foot artillery is to release 16 different gunners 2 nco's and 2 officers. At the same time we do some initial train miniatures which I am preparing a plate for at the moment.

And thanks to MB for wrapping up the story behind the 4Pdrs. :-)

I purchased some of the Black Hussar / Westfalia Saxon Artillery Crew and Officers. I was very pleased with the service of the company and the quality of the figures. I have attached a couple of photos of the officers.

Lovely work there. I recognise the guns from my plans.
Stephen

I managed to paint one of the guns crews this weekend. Only three more to go! The gun is actually a Calpe 6pdr. I still need to finish off the formation tray from LITKO

IT might be optics and I know he is leaning forward but the spike man looks out of proportion to the rest of the team.

Good spot regarding positioning from Mr Deadhead.

Best wishes.

Chris

That's really nice work Martyn.

I'm painting some 15mm Saxon horse and foot artillery at the moment and I'm having trouble finding details of what colour the officers' pom-poms should be. When you were researching the uniforms did you manage to find a reference for this?

For the Pompon colors o the officers there are a few good plates out there:

link

I also found another plate entitled: Westfalia plate 6: Saxon army 1810-1813, Foot Artillery. It is on pinterest so I cannot post a link, but I used a google search of "Saxon Artillery 1813" to easily find it.

I have also ordered the book from Dr Stephen Summerfield (who posted earlier on this thread). It should arrive tomorrow and hopefully there will be some plates in there.
For the officer with Shako, I think that the pompon is gold, but I can easily change it if I get new information.

On the comment from Mr Dodson, I can see exactly what you mean from the photos, he does look out of proportion. However, I went and had another look at the base in real life, and he looks just fine and in proportion.

Thanks Martyn,

I found the plate you were referring to and have downloaded it. I was confused about the pompoms because I've got 'The Royal Saxon Army 1792 – 1814' by WJ Rawkins and he says that the officers didn't wear company pompoms. However, since my figures have got pompoms it seems like gold is the best bet.

If you do find more information in Dr Summerfield's book I would love to hear it.

Best wishes

Stephen

I have got these figures and they all work well together. The discrepancy is to do with the lens used in the camera work. It exaggerates magnification (or the converse) with distance. In the bottom photo he looks far too big, in the top one far too small.

Oddly many of the figures from old Westfalia came with a locating hole for a sabre-briguet, but lacked such. I keep meaning to find some spares to add

Very pleasing to see these>

The artillery team-riders have now been made available too.

Excellent.

And the light cavalry.

Also excellent.

A long wait but patience rewarded hopefully soon as I've pre-ordered some.

Cheers,

Paul

Now how did Tango miss that?

We were awaiting the Light Cavalry from Westfalia for ages. Here they are indeed!

link

Stephen Donovan,

I received the book from Dr Summerfield today – I highly recommend it.
There are a number of plates showing artillery officers (pg 125, 129, 145 and 149); all of them are in uncovered shakos with red plumes. The plumes all appear to be a attached to the shako by a two part fixture. The lower part appears to be a round gold pompon with a brass cone type structure above it, into which the plume fits.
The above is just speculation by me as the area in question is small and not detailed on the plates.
I suspect that when the shako cover is applied, as in the figure I have, the red plume and the brass cone part is removed, leaving the gold pompon that is seen on the figure.
At least there appears to be some basis to painting the pompon gold and it will be easy to change if someone makes a better argument.

The book is great, but I have found that I can no longer use my French M1803 caissons to represent the Saxon caissons, so I will be ordering some M1813 Saxon caissons this evening – more expense.

Thanks Martyn,

I see what you mean about the pompom and the brass cone:

I've had another look through Rawkins and this is what he says: " … the tall full dress plume, was scarlet and attached with a gilt tulip shaped socket. Officers did not wear company pompons but the tulip socket is always shown attached to the shako. . . . Officers were provided with a black oiled canvas cover for the shako and these were commonly worn for all duties throughout 1813 and 1814 with the socket beneath giving the officer's shako a distinctly Germanic appearance."

From this it sounds as if the officers' shako covers should go over the gilt plume holder so they would look more like Prussians. However, since my figures have been modeled with pompoms I am going to follow your lead and paint them gold.

It makes a lot of sense that the gold tulip is a single piece. It also makes sense that the shako cover would go over the top of the tulip and cover it. I suppose that it could be possible to do a simple conversion of the figure, but with all of my painting back log it will stay as a gold pompon for now.