"Help! - with Wash Techniques" Topic

I was trying to do some black lining on these little kit bash cars, and my wash just went haywire. It absolutely would not stay in the crevices, bleeding onto the base color. Eventually I gave up and brushed the wash all over the whole thing to see what would happen, that is what you see below.

So my questions are how do you use the Vallejo washes, and can they be used to do fine black lining?

I did not gloss coat anything before the wash, just put it strait on the acrylic.

Thanks,
Cyclopeus

I actually use Windsor Newton inks to shade and I always put a coat of sealer on before washing. I tend to use dullcote though since that is what I usually have on hand.

If you don't it can be hit or miss if it discolors the paint. Some paints get discolored and some paints don't.

I've never been great with washes until I started using the ones from Citadel. They're about as fool proof as is possible.

DM

leidang +1 :unless I'm applying wash with a 10/0 brush I always clear coat first.

I apply a gloss coat before doing a wash. I've had your same experience over a flat coat. FWIW I'm using Testor's gloss and flat. My washes are oil paints thinned with mineral spirits. I used to do it over a flat coat but when I started painting 15mm minis I noticed the darkening/dirty look and switched to the current gloss-wash-flat method.

I have to agree with Don Manser. I've played around with a ton of different washes, both purchased and home-made, and the citadel ones are by far the best I've used.

I have had the same experience with washing minis that you had, where the washes wouldn't stay in the crevices (or, in a few cases, were for some reason repelled from the crevices and pooled only in the flat spots…?). I never figured out what the problem was, whether it was the paints I was using or what. The Citadel washes have done the trick for me every time I've used them, though.

I use the "magic wash" technique. Magic wash is simply water mixed with Future floor polish. Future is an acrylic medium and helps break up surface tension and keeps your wash in the cracks. You can either mix in inks or acrylic paint. I use a 4:1 ratio water to Future.

Part of the problem may be that the wash isn't thinned enough. No idea of how thin these 'ready made' washes are because I've never used them.

I use W&N inks too and thin them between 15&25 to 1, depending on the colour and job. Never had them go quite as badly wrong as your example but some colours do seem to attract the wash more than others, stopping it settling into the crevices. I solve that at the highlighting stage.

I fing that using a surfactant doesn't work – it actually spreads the pigment out over the surface so does the opposite of what you want. The pigment does go into the crevices but also spreads over the rest of the figure.

Part of the trick on larger models is to keep working with a damp brush as the wash dries – pick it off those areas you don't it on and leave it where you do. It sounds fiddly but you soon get the hang of it and it can be done quickly enough so that working on a batch of models at a time is quite feasible.

15:1 , thanks tony, that explains my most recent wash disaster with ink!

Hi Norm – glad it helped.

Black seems to need the most dilution with browns needing less. I have used 10:1 with Sepia but rarely and that was over flesh where the tinting of the ink over the flesh colour was actually beneficial.

I paint mostly 2-10mm figures but the few larger ones I have done do seem to need more than one was coat sometimes. I'd say two washes quite thin are possibly more effective than a single heavier one.

I'm using the 'FW' acrylic inks (sorry, by Daler/Rowney not W&N, W&N do a similar range though) – not the ones in square bottles – I found those to be too light on pigment and with a tendency to spread all over the shop. I do remember they needed less thinning though so maybe someone with more experience of those will come up with a better dilution rate for them.

Cyclopeus, somebody should write a book on washes.

Personally I never buy washes as you are never quite sure what you are gong to get, so I make my own.

In answer to your original question, in my experience the best way to achieve 'panel line' type effect is to use Ivory Black oil paint thinned with white/mineral spirits. You'll want to coat an acyclic painted surface with varnish first however to protect it from the solvent. Excess wash can be cleaned off the surface with a clean dry brush or cotton bud/q-tip.
A similar effect can be achieved with 'Future' and acrylic inks or if you are feeling really adventurous you can make your own miracle wash with inks and various mediums and additives.

With regards to Vallejo washes, I've never quite managed to work out which of their different wash types is suitable for what purpose.

Thanks for all the advise, everyone.

Well they're not done yet, but I think I managed to pull them out of the fire.

I'm thinking of skipping the camo on these, what do you think? I certainly won't be doing anymore pizza camo. It would be orange amoeba shapes.

I still have to re-work the stowage. I'm thinking the chaotic colors in the stowage will be balanced by the monochrome yellow of the body. We'll see.

Looking good, what did you do?

Yellow is notoriously hard to work with!

I Painted a dark olive/brown into the crevices, black lining in a sense. Then mixed shades of that with the base yellow, and layered up, increasing the yellow with each layer. I think, from darkest shadow, to lightest highlight was four layers. The pure yellow was the third, then I mixed in a touch of white for the raised edge highlight.

So, no washes, just layered paint.

I almost have the little bastards done, now. I'll post a final shot when I get them finished up.

Ive just been playing with the 'new' Humbrol washes, in my case over enamels though apparently they can be used over acrylics. I'm impressed :o)
L

Here's my post of the finished cars.

TMP link