"Wurttemberg Helmets - 1809 & 1812" Topic

I have been interested in building a Wurttember army for quite awhile. Recently I purchased David Wright's book "The Wurttemberg Army in the Campaign of 1809". I was however confused by the depiction of the helmet in the Bob Marrion pictures. The caterpiller crest was so small and fails to overhang the front of the helmet! This was not what I expected from other depiction of the helmet that I have seen over the years. Can anyone provide any information?

The other question I have is around the grenadier helmet. I must say that I was surprised by this helmet when Front Rank produced their recent figures. I note a reference to the grenadier company in Nafziger's "The Wurttenberg Army 1792-1815" stating that the first company of the first battalion following the 1807 reorganisation was known as Grenadiers but he stated "They were in no manner distinguished from the musketeers." I had assumed that this comment referred to their uniforms.

Wright's book mentions the strange grenadier helmet but does not depict it, saying in a footnote that it may not have been introduced in 1809 and noted that it is not mentioned in 1808 or 1811 regulations. Although he does state that it is illustrated by two contempory sources.

I found an illustration of the grenadier helmet in one of Peter Bunde plates and he depicts its use throughout the period 1808-1812.

So my question with regard to the grenadier helmet – Can we confirm that it was used in the 1809 and/or 1812 campaigns by all the grenadier companies of the line regiments?

I am sorry but this is very difficult to research such items from Australia and would greatly appreciate any contribution to the topic.

I've looked in uniform books by Haythornthwaite and Otto von Pivka (Digby Smith) – both focussing on 1812 – and neither mention the grenadier helmet with the sideways comb. However, the Histoire et Figurine site does show it. link

(There appears to have been a mistake in the numbering of the plate and I believe that the fourth figure should be 1d.)

This contains relevant illustrations and info:
link
Edit:
Beaten to it!!

Hi.

I have an old military modelling magazine on the Wurttemberg army in 1812

Please email me and I can send you the pdf

csonkaj@hotmail.com

SJ: No, Figure 1d is the drummer. Notice the swallows nest on his shoulders. 1a is an earlier version with falling horse hair crest; no it did not overhang the front like later versions. The museum in the town where I live here in the Stuttgart area (Baden-Wurtemburg) has a 1b on display. The catepillar crest is quite thin and reminded me more of a stiff brush than a wool based crest. IIRC, like with the Bavarians (which Wurtemburg had close ties to), elite companies had the left side carrot plume to distinguish them from Fusiliers, in 1812.

Hope that helps. IIRC, the Austrian Heer museum has an example in their Napoleonic section, in a glass case- it's either the first or second glass case on the left as you walk into the section. (An EXCELLENT museum, BTW!)

D4, yes that's how the figures appear to be labelled but not what the key says. They keys lists 1d as grenadier and 1e as tambour (drummer). The grenadier figure isn't labelled. You'll note the key goes up to 1g the labelled figures only to 1f.

Basically you have to shift 1d to 1f left one figure – the right most shako figure being 1g (fusilier 1st regiment 1814)

According to Digby Smith says "In 1806 a new kasket was introduced, it was higher in the crown and the pompom and drooping horsehair crest were replaced by a black woollen "sausage" crest…..By 1812 ALL regiments wore this headgear and lapels were no longer the facing colour." He does not mention any distinction between Grenadier head wear and fusiliers / musketeers. He goes on to say that during 1812 the helmet was replaced by the bell-topped shako. I would suggest that would have been a gradual process. Gill states that the although there was a grenadier company (1809) it was not differentiated in anyway from the other line companies. They were not considered elite as in other armies.

Gill states that, the King of Wurttemburg in 1809 had two "armies" – one disposed to the Rheinbund the other remained with the King as household troops consisting of two Jager regts a Chevaux-leger and a horse battery.

There is an illustration in Funcken of a Wurttemburg Grenadier of the Royal Guard (1808 -1813) and a Chassuer of the Royal Guard (1809 – 1813) where the Grenadier as bearskin head wear.

I would go with Digby Smith his tome is still one the best out there at the moment.

edit: Although looking at the Histofig illustrations they seem to illustrate the Grenadier Helmet that op Robert is after….hopefully Digby can shed more light in his continuing uniform books of the Rheinbund… Hope this helps.

Thank you SJDonovan & Vaughan.

This plate is interesting for the musketeer helmet. The crest is small and is similar to the depiction in Peter Bunde's plate (but not as small as Bob Marrion's drawings).

Please compare this plate to the helmet on wonderfully painted Front Rank figures.
link

This is the size that I am use to. It compares to the uniform drawings in E-G Hourtoulle "Borodino – The Moskova", Nafziger and Funcken.

I also found another site showing Wurttemberg uniforms
link
This also shows large caterpillar helmets for the line infantry.

So I now have a number of references that differs greatly on the size of the caterpillar crest on the line musketeer's helmet. Do we know of any surviving helmets?

I have also found another reference to the grenadier helmet. It is a Herbert Knotel drawing in Elting's "Napoleonic Uniforms Vol III". showing a grenadier in 1812. So I am more comfortable with its use.

I've seen a few different versions too. I wanted to represent the helmet in my army though…just for added variety as the AB Wurttemberg range is quite limited.

I did the following mod: postimg.org/image/p796tom09

Elting volume III p159 plate 4 on Wuerttemurg shows the transverse crest on an 1812 grenadier (2nd infantry regiment). These are the Knoetel plates. Also, for the grendadier the comb is shown in brass (but not in any other Wuerttemburg plate)
Phil

It would depend on the time and the regiment, Seele shows two different kinds of helmets in around 1808 , Ebener only crested helmets

Seele plate of 1809

The military modelling article mentioned above by Hunlion and kindly sent to me is by Dr Adrian Schmit and shows illustrations of the Wurttemberg army during 1812 based upon drawings by Faber du Faur. Faber du Faur was an officer in the Wurttemberg Horse Artillery in Ney's III Corps.

The article has a very nice drawing of the grenadier helmet. This is from a sketch done on the 21st Sept 1812 near Moscow by du Faur. The sketch shows this helmet being worn by members of the 1st (Prinz Paul) and the 2nd (Herzog Wilhelm) Line Infantry, presumingly from the grenadier company.

The article also shows a line musketeer of the 1st again by Faber du Faur with a large helmet. The article states "most sources which illustrates Wurttemberg infantry uniform depict them at an earlier date, and in those the helmet is of a slightly different model, slightly lower in the crown and with a smaller caterpillar crest". Dr Schmit states that he has no information of the precice date of the introduction of the type shown by Faber du Faur.

So it seems quite possible that the large musketeer helmet was used during the 1812 campaign and that the smaller one in the 1809 campaign.

Thank you Hunlion!

von Wintefeldt provided some great illustrations. I found the Edner Uniform Plates of Wurttemberg Army in 1807 here.

link

Again these show small helmets.