cat herder | 08 Feb 2014 8:51 a.m. PST |
Hi all, bit of a long thread this so sorry if I bore people. My nephew who is eleven yoa is constantly badgering me to play Warhammer 40k with him, anyway this morning I finally caved in and said that I would give him a game sometime soon. Anyway I thought to myself once I get him used to playing the 40k rules I will subvert him into playing historical games and so here's the question. I have no knowledge of the Bolt action system but I am guessing that it has similarities to BA, so question one is how hard a transition would it be from 40k to BA. Question 2 is this, if I am going to lay out the cash for the rules and miniatures I am going to want to use them for games with my regular opponent as well, my opponent is quite picky about historical accuracy and so my question is, how realistic a game is BA. Thanks for any help/info, best wishes
CH. |
Andy ONeill | 08 Feb 2014 9:02 a.m. PST |
Personally, I would introduce him to 40k and then Stargrunt 2. SG2 is a better sci fi game and I use it as the basis for my ww2 skirmish gaming. |
yoakley | 08 Feb 2014 9:03 a.m. PST |
it'll be easy for an 11 yo to pick up BA. Roll to hit with a handful of modifiers, roll to damage/kill. All D6s. You'd be better with more terrain than a WH40K game. I'd just stick to the basic rulebook and start with the Warlord plastic boxes. Assembling a force is something your nephew should enjoy as well. Realism in BA is gonna open a whole can of worms. There's a couple of odd rules but overall we like it. We play regular US vs veteran Germans. The Yanks have more men, use marching fire whereas the Germans are harder to kill (rationalised by saying they are using cover better). Even if your mate hates the rules a BA 1000 point force is about the same as a force required for Chain of Command. |
cat herder | 08 Feb 2014 9:23 a.m. PST |
Hi lads, thanks very much for your help, I'm very grateful. I was already planning to do WW2 skirmish/ company level stuff but was not sure which rules to buy. I have bought 2 British mk vi's and a 2pounder anti tank gun, and two French R35's, I have also got a box of the British plastic 8th army from the Perry range, I was intending to do the Syrian campaign but am struggling to get some correct French figures. For rules I am again unsure I had sort of narrowed it down to either TW@T OR IABSM both sets by the lardies, however the introduction of Chain of commanded as confused me further as I am not sure if these are suppose to replace either of the previously mentioned rules or are a complete different system. Because of mental health problems I wargame pretty much in a vacuum with the exception of my regular opponent who is a fantastic bloke but will only really collect 2mm and 6mm figures to do big sprawling battles, although he will play with bigger toys at lower levels as long as I collect and paint them. I am only guessing here but I would have thought that the Lardie rules were more realistic than BA. Sorry if I have waffled on but I do feel a little unsure of which way to jump, thanks again for your advice, all the best..CH. |
Black Guardian | 08 Feb 2014 11:07 a.m. PST |
Howdy, Chain of Command is a Platoon Level ruleset, while IABSM is company level, so one organisation step up. As yoakley has said, Bolt Action plays roughly on the same level as Chain of Command, i.e. Platoon level. Personally, having seen Bolt Action at play in our club, I would rather recommend Chain of Command both for realism and the better game, as it faces you with more difficult decisions to make. It will also be easier to convert your picky mate ;) On the other hand, the transition from 40k to Chain of Command would probably be harder, not neccesarily because of the rule mechanisms but because of the tactical depth these games develop. It makes you think and punished poor tactics, which might not suit the style of your 11 year old boy. |
cat herder | 08 Feb 2014 12:02 p.m. PST |
Hi Black Guardian, thank you very much for that informative reply, in your opinion would I be better to buy both sets of rules, one for my regular opponent and one for my nephew. One more question if you would be so kind, does one get to use vehicles and tanks in both rule sets. Thanks again
CH. |
Joker | 08 Feb 2014 1:16 p.m. PST |
I would say yes and yes! Thats exactly what I have done and both rules use vehicles. As to which one I am using is as much down to my opponent as my mood. BA is a very good fun game, (they can't all be wrong), and Chain of command is a very very good game that is just a bit more cerebral but very satisfying. |
blankfrank | 08 Feb 2014 2:43 p.m. PST |
I personally would just enjoy spending quality time playing 40k with your newphew. As a school teacher who runs a 'Warhammer klub' I can say 40k is a far more complex a game rule wise than BA or CoC. In the 15 years I have been running the club few children actually own the rules. They play with half remembered rules from their visits and games at the shop. So I provide them with a very light one page version. I think what they are very bad at doing is setting up the game properly. They tend to want to line everything up one side of the table with no terrain. So getting your newphew to following one of the scenarios with objectives would be an education. |
Tommiatkins | 08 Feb 2014 3:25 p.m. PST |
Hi Bolt action is fast, fun, easy to learn and whilst not THAT realistic it gives you a good game. It's a perfect starter game for kids and to be honest , for adults who want to enjoy a light game with banter and speed of play. The similarities between 40k and BA are few. You move units, you have overwatch, tank warfare is simplified. You will find some flavour of 40 k in there, but its a fresh game. |
cat herder | 08 Feb 2014 3:54 p.m. PST |
Hi all, thank you all very much for some very helpful reply's, I am now set on a course and for one of the world's greatest ditherers that in itself is a major bonus. Best wishes to all and thanks once again
.CH. |
nazrat | 08 Feb 2014 5:22 p.m. PST |
I have both because a number of my friends like the speed and simplicity of Bolt Action, but I really love the realism and somewhat more complex set-up of Chain of Command. I can enjoy any of the WW II rules out there as long as I get to hang with my buddies, though! |
Wolfprophet | 08 Feb 2014 7:40 p.m. PST |
This has been an interesting read. I've been wanting to do 28mm World War II gaming, but I wasn't sure which ruleset I wanted to try. Sounds like Bolt Action would be pretty easy as a starter game. I was quite fond of the World War II flavoured Battlefield Evolution rules though, but those aren't really widely available anymore that I've seen. |
Lion in the Stars | 09 Feb 2014 12:23 a.m. PST |
Battlefield Evolution seems to have died a painful death (Hey, Mongoose Publishing and miniatures, enough said). The local store has been pushing Bolt Action, partly because there's LOTS of 28mm terrain around. The guys like it, largely because of the similarity to 40k. I'd take a look at it to try to drag the youngster into historicals, even if the historical accuracy might be a bit suspect. Another rules option is the Battlegroup Kursk/Overlord/Fall of the Reich rules. The mini rulebook is cheap, but you either need Kursk or the mini rulbook and Overlord, Fall of the Reich (1945), or Blitzkrieg (Russian front, 1941) for army lists. Rules scale from a couple squads per side up to nearly a battalion per side, and are playable in 15, 20, or 28mm. Though you might want to keep the game down to a platoon or so per side for 28mm. |
Tin Soldier Man | 09 Feb 2014 12:43 a.m. PST |
If Bolt Action is chequers, Chain of Command is chess. It's slightly more involved, but nothing that an 11 year old would struggle with. |
cat herder | 09 Feb 2014 6:53 a.m. PST |
Hi chaps, just to let you know I have just ordered, COC and BA, going to order some plastic Africa Korps now and some German tank crew to man my captured R.35's. Thanks again to all who have replied, all the very best wishes
CH. |
skirmishcampaigns | 09 Feb 2014 7:57 a.m. PST |
I play Bolt Action with my 12 and 10 year old kids and they really like it. Lots of action and quick play where they can memorize the modifiers. |
spontoon | 09 Feb 2014 11:02 a.m. PST |
I'd try FOW to introduce your nephew to historical gaming. Very 40K-ish. |
War Panda | 09 Feb 2014 11:11 a.m. PST |
@cat herder I own both games too and I really enjoy them; each with a different crowd. BA is quicker and has less to remember so I think you'll find it easier to get into. |
cat herder | 09 Feb 2014 1:08 p.m. PST |
Hi again lads, plastic mini's have now been ordered. Spontoon, I am racing towards sixty at warp speed, hearing is shot and eyes are in serious decline so I am afraid anything smaller than 28mm is now a non starter for me. If I am really honest I had seriously considered doing this project using the old Airfix 1/32 range of figures. Thanks again to all for your very helpful feedback, all the best
CH. |
BlackWidowPilot | 10 Feb 2014 9:46 a.m. PST |
Just caught this thread, cat herder (brilliant handle BTW)
for accurate 1940 French troops you've got Crusader Miniatures whose historical accuracy I can vouch for as I am the culprit behind the actual research, and I worked from several highly reliable sources including a reproduction of a primary source, the official uniform color plates issued by the French Army in 1939. The only glitch in the final product was that Mark Sims issued the Chatterault No. 2s with a carbine unbeknownst to *moi,* when all they should have is a pistol according to the official TOE, but at the tactical level one could by 1941 in the colonies excuse that perhaps as a "lesson learned." Artisan makes some superpower Legion Etranger in tropical shorts and kepi, and they were promising dedicated Senegalese Tiraillieurs. Which I would hope are now available to order. Hope this helps, as speaking as an educator! I like nothing better than corrupting the young in this fashion! Leland R. Ericsson Metal Express metal-express.net
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Jimmy da Purple | 10 Feb 2014 3:46 p.m. PST |
I taught my 7 yo both FOW and BA. He loved both. |
cat herder | 10 Feb 2014 5:12 p.m. PST |
Hi guys, thanks very much for your input. Leland the handle comes from my style of collecting wargame periods, no matter how hard I try to discipline myself and stick to one project at a time my mind wanders off to other periods/ rule sets, and next thing you know I have several hundred pounds/dollars worth of new toys for a new period on order, hence trying to control my idea's and urges is akin to herding cats. Thanks for the info regarding the middle eastern French troops I will now have to buy some of these as well. Once again best wishes to all, cheers
CH. |