"Ogre Miniatures Status?" Topic

Anybody have any news about the future availability of Ogre Miniatures? It seems that there were none listed last time I checked Warehouse 23 and now the site is down for maintenance. Is there something in the works, or have Ogre Miniatures(metal, resin, or plastic…not card) gone the way of the dodo?

Last I heard sj games had some deal in the works but I do not know the status. Given how slow the wheels grind over there I would not hold your breath.

IMHO there are plenty of options out there other than the official minis. Plenty of small companies out there that have been filling this niche for years. I'd support them. SJ games doesn't seem motivated on the miniature side of things.

They've been withdrawn so they can reevaluate the prices, apparently they are not cost effective.

I really like SJG Ogre miniatures. Yes there are other companies making similar minatures but the SJG ones (both Ogres, tanks,and GEVs) just capture the feeling in my opinion

Yeah, SJG announced they were not making any $$$, and were going to think about what to do next. IMHO, that means raising prices IF they decide to produce minis at all.

Hopefully in their quest to make their miniatures "cost effective" they remember to keep prices cost competitive, perhaps by reevaluating their production and packaging costs versus reevaluating prices. Hopefully pricing more like GZG, Reaper, Brigade, or Reviresco…not like GW. I can get some mighty(and at a nice price) chunks of metal from Reaper or Reviresco, and the "Days of Empire" line are starting to fill in my ranks of superheavy tank units. Ogre has such nice, unique,& iconic vehicles like the namesake Ogres and the PanEuro GEVs, it would be a shame to see the line go extinct or become absurdly priced(and then go extinct). And "3D card models" just don't cut it for me and wouldn't work with all the metal, plastic, and resin models that make up my army.

I wish their cardboard Kickstarter would have gone to plastic miniatures if funding had reached high enough. Seems like it reached high enough, and I'll bet most would have preferred plastic over cardboard.

For the record, the official party line can be found here, on Update #151 (first point):

link

Now, I really wish that they had gone forward with the miniatures line through someone like Randy Hoffa at C-in-C. Not only does he have history with the line he can evidently continue to produce very high-quality models at a very reasonable price-point.

As others have alluded, the raising of prices may well spell the end of the line. Let's face it, the re-release of several core models was already edging the strictures of believability. I mean, ~$5 USD for a heavy tank and ~$10 USD for a superheavy? I mean, I rarely buy GHQ models because of their price and they are typically less than half of that.

Having said all that, I had a feeling something like this would happen so I added my 'requirements' to my extant forces early on when the line was reinstated. That, however, does not help those who are now getting into it or are returning after a hiatus. If the price is too much for the market to bear, the line will inevitably suffer and eventually wither and die.

But, I have to trust SJG will make the right choices for them in this regard and since we do not have any notion on how much the price-revamp will be in the end, it is too early to decry them or claim that it is a death-knell. Only time will tell…but I have a doubt.

SJG acknowledge that they charge more for less, as it were. They claim it works for them, but in a hobby that already has expense along with high quality, less costly competition, they will probably not do well with their miniature line.

My only real complaint is their Infantry is not even close to scale with their other vehicles. I know, I know, they are "notional" and only "representative" of the Infantry, but I like things a little more in scale overall, generally …

Well, I have the DE board game, and am planning to leave it at that. I think they really just don't want to make minis and are torpedoing their own line, whether knowingly or unknowingly. It's a shame, but there it is. A $5.00 USD-$6.00 heavy tank is a nonstarter for me and just about everyone I know. SJG has traditionally been rather defensive about their practices in this department so I just assume they'll do what they feel like, and I'll comment with my wallet. If they don't want to, or can't, sell at a reasonable price, that's that. The market is as it is and will find its own solution.

Personally, my solution is a scale shift, and building a force with the newly expanding O8 3mm sci fi line. But as stated, there are myriad substitutes. Not quite the genuine article, but what can you do?

I hadn't considered it until reading this thread, but I have a bunch of Ogre miniatures that I would be willing to sell. PM me if you are interested.

I'll be in for Ogres, but will use proxies for everything else.

As OGRE isn't really expandable to bring in continuing revenue like their card games, I can see why SJG won't/don't do much with it (except to shove it back into the corner and ignore it, again.) If the minis aren't coming back, oh well. I've always had ideas about sculpting my own to fit on those 1/2" counters from the old game, so maybe I'll give that a try…. ;-)

I've seen a few grumbles by representatives of SJG that the miniatures are losing them money, and that a price rise is inevitable. Furthermore, I've been told by the strict letter of the law they have brought the miniatures back fulfilling their Kickstarter promise, but didn't claim they would keep them in production, especially if they can't make enough profit on them.

As a consumer I find all of this is quite maddening.

I can also see that SJG must all find this quite maddening too.

However, at the end of the day the people running SJG have to keep the business viable, because it is their business and they are responsible for it. Therefore whatever moans I have about the availability of the miniatures etc is really all rather irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things.

I may want to buy more miniatures, and I hope I get the opportunity to do so, but I don't really need more a I have enough to play the games I want with what I've got.

Well darn, I already thought they were a mite pricey. All I really need to finish my army though is a doppelsoldner.

Honestly, although I know I sound dismissive, in the end they have to run their company as they think is best. If miniatures don't fit their business model, so be it. It's a shame, but there it is. I'm quite happy with my 3mm PseudOgre set, so I'm indifferent. Their rules set is sound, the boatdgame is great, and if they want to price their minis line out of the market, let them do it if that's what they think is best for their company. It happens all the time – contractors do it to me every day, and that's just how business goes.

Wow…

I was really excited when I heard that SJG was brining back their Ogre ministures. I had a few of them from their previous incarnation but never had enough for a real game so I thought I'd buy into them now. When they did come back, they were kind of pricy but so are a lot of hobbies. At the time I had already committed my hobby budget to something else, but I figured when I was done with that project I'd come back and start building a collection of Ogre minis.

Well, when I did come back, it seemed half the miniatures were OOS/OOP and I didn't want to start buying them if it ended up I could never finish my forces. Now, they've pulled them from the online store altogether and I have no confidence that even if they return they will be available long enough for me to buy a complete set of ogres and conventions forces. So, I guess I won't be buying anything. :-(

Seems like a hell of a way to run a company, but they are the ones that do it for a living so what do I know?

I do understand a company needs to make a profit and do what is best for it, but not to pursue a demand just seems like nitwitery…or a total refusal to get out of their paper product comfort zone. A smart move, that others have mentioned, is for SJG to hand over the molds and prototypes to a miniature producer(for a percentage to SJG, of course). There are several that would no doubt jump at such a chance to grab a well known( and loved) line such as Ogre. Even as a generic SF miniatures line Ogre minis would do well. If SJG REALLY THOUGHT that Ogre Miniatures aren't profitable, then why not just hand over the miniatures line and molds over for free to a caster? I figure not because, I get the impression that SJG wants to keep total control over the Ogre miniatures line even if they don't produce them, and it would be a damn embarrassment if "brand X miniatures" makes the line profitable. It's their IP and they can do whatever they want with it, but it's a crying shame for SJG not to do something to save the line, make their fans happy, gain new fans, and even make a few ducats in the process. Also, the Ogre Miniatures line has a good deal of room for expansion. There are vehicles, Ogres, and structures from the fluff that could be pursued. There are other factions to make vehicles for, and countless variants…and think of all the paper books for rules, orders of battle, and sourcebooks that SJG gets to sell. Heck, just the mention of "cyberships" in the Ogre history fluff, set off a series of sketches in my notebook for scratchbuilding reference. To say the Ogre line isn't expandable shows a lack of imagination, ignores 30+ years of dedicated fans, a chance to make new fans, and a market of general 6mm SF miniature gamers.

I just worry that SJG would rather let the Ogre miniatures line die than leave their paper comfort zone and have to fiddle with non-paper miniatures or to loosen their grip to let someone else have a go at it.

A smart move, that others have mentioned, is for SJG to hand over the molds and prototypes to a miniature producer(for a percentage to SJG, of course).

The old Ogre minis I have were made by Ral Partha under licence from SJG so its not like it would be a new situation for them.

Those were the days. I still have some unopened blisters in my rainy day box to be assembled and painted.

Ah, well…I don't often laugh out loud when I see something on the internet, but I did when I saw these prices: link

I cannot help but think that they are simply trying to murder the concept of Ogre miniatures. On the other hand, I no longer think that Zandris IV's Ogresque line is even *remotely* overpriced (well, 'overpriced' in the sense that they were more than I was nominally willing to pay, not they weren't *worth* it, because they are).

Those prices are high.

Ok, who makes the best alternative Ogres?

Use 3mm scale conventional vehicles. Then any 6mm vehicle becomes an instant Ogre. That's the best solution I've found so far. Of the Ogre-esque tanks available in that scale scheme, the best are in the IWM Battletech line, though the new Plasmablast superheavies are looking pretty fantastic for the purpose as well.

I think you've got something by going to 3mm, there really isn't anything like an Ogre outside of sjg in 6mm.

In fairness, the Days of Empire line from Reviresco is pretty workmanlike. But it's a tight range. It's hard to find ones that don't just look like a scaled up tank instead of a genuine BOLO/Ogre type.

Didn't the Daily Illuminator announcement on the OGRE minis release state " And don't go gouging people on eBay for older minis now."?

That seems ironic . . . But then, I just need a Ninja, a Vulcan and a couple Drones . . . maybe a Paneuro and Combine Missile Crawler . . . :D

When the minis were there early yesterday the Ninja was about $44.00 USD(I think) the Vulcan was a similar price while the Drones were about $10.00 USD each.

I didn't see the Missile Crawlers but if it's like all the other vehicles the Crawlers should be between $40.00 USD and $50.00 USD but that's just a guess since last year they sold for about $30.00 USD each.

See my thing is I don't need much for my needs I do need an OGRE Mk VI and a few other vehicles but with the Mk VI going for around $60.00 USD they can keep it.

@All – these are still the 6mm line of models? Holy smokes are those prices high…

Looking at the rest of the 6mm SciFi competition these are between 3x to 5x the price. Wow? Especially considering these are not licensed IP, but home grown IP.

I agree with Michael – for those prices they can keep them and then wonder why they don't have higher volume sales…

Really, $44 USD for a single Ogre is excessive, as is $20 USD for a single resin command post. Utter nonsense of the highest order. They're clearly trying to kill the OM line if that's what they think is reasonable pricing. I'd much rather they come out and say it than try to blow smoke like this. I'm a long time SJG booster, but seriously. And there'd be no reason to be defensive or anything, just a "We tried, but we're not set up to be a minis company, so we're shutting it down. Thank you for your patronage." Releasing models at insane prices and expecting people not to notice is kind of backhanded. And if the answer is "If you don't like it, don't buy it," well, then… Fine.

Maybe I'm wrong though, and they're really bending over backwards to make the line viable. I guess only time will tell. At the moment though, the present tenor of things is not confidence-producing.

They're not a huge company, I understand that these prices reflect the only way it's viable for them. you'd think they would look at licensing it out again.

ODE has generated a lot of interest in the game, and the miniatures are part and parcel of the line, so their continued availability is a big issue, if one wants to get new blood into the game, but there again so is an introductory version of the basic board game.

IMO, YMMV, but the Ogre prices while high, are acceptable, because at the end of the day you probably only need one of each, and that is only if you want to run games with multiple Ogres. The signature miniatures for both the Combine and Pan Euro forces on the other hand probably need to be priced quite keenly, because one needs probably a dozen of each minimum.

However, IMNSHO, to create more Ogre miniature sales one must have a sense that the line is supported and is growing. Namely Ogres for different factions, and appropriate support vehicles and infantry for these new factions. One way of keeping such a large range afloat is to have six months of X faction, followed by those models laid off while the next faction gets some love and so on and so forth, as this would generate sales through time pressure, but not disappoint too much, because one would know that all one had to do was be a bit patient.

Obviously these ideas are back of an envelope musing and terms and conditions apply.

Paint it Pink,

Your ideas to create new Ogre sales are spot on and I am curious to see if SJG will try them out.

I did find this line amusing: "because at the end of the day you probably only need one of each, and that is only if you want to run games with multiple Ogres."

If I can find a shot of my groups OGRE collection i'll post it and then you will know why I smiled when I read that.

:)

Thanks,

Pat

link

We shall see if that worked…

And there are more now…

:)

That's a lot of Ogres. Picture is a bit small, but I think I counted thirty-seven. Is that right?

Here are six of mine:

link

I've got five more on workbench, and one going through the paint shop as I type this.

Ashley,

Those are frak'n sharp looking. Well done indeed.

And try clicking on the tiny picture, it should blow it up to a more readable size.

I don't know why it turned out like that but I will try fixing it later.

I think I have fifteen now with three MKIs to be painted.

I MIGHT but another MKVI and an additional MKIV/MKV Hunter Killer team but that would be a just in case purchase.

Between all the guys in the group (and their additional purchases) I think we have more than enough.

And once again, excellent work.

Thanks,

Pat

Thank you for the kind compliments.

Even after enlarging the picture I'm still counting 37 Ogres. :-)

I bow to the King of the Ogres.

Not king, just nuts. Like the rest of my friends.

:)

I count 31 OGRE's and 6 Fencers(or Fencer type's).

I myself have 21 Ogre's(a mix of them but no Mk VI)and 3 Fencer's.

But I've heard of a person who has 2000 Ogre miniatures and he has 6 of every OGRE/Fencer 42 in all.

Yipe. I've only got one. Clearly, I have allowed there to be an Ogre gap.

You must close the Ogre gap or become over run I guess? ;-)

We must NOT have an OGRE gap!

How many OGRE's is too much:).

You can never have too many Ogres citizen. Please report to the re-education center for indoctrination. ;-)

Well Warehouse 23 as part of a change in format no longer has any OGRE miniatures advertised.

SJG – A company with direction :(

Patience is a virtue, and virtue is a grace…

Word is that we will be informed after the end of year admin is completed.

I find alot of the vehicles from Reaper's CAV can be used as proxies.

I find it amusing that SJG won't subcontract it out to Reaper, they have a proven track record and the quality is ok.