"Wargaming the battles before & after Ulm" Topic

I have a desire to re-fight some battles from the early part of the 1805 campaign. Not a campaign mind you, just one or two battles that are linked to the phase of the war before Austerlitz.

Does anyone have any suggestions? It could be a historical wargame that you have enjoyed in the past, or an entirely fictional affair using the historical orders of battle.
Has anyone had any experiences writing or playing scenarios for this time. It could be a scenario based on the Austrians trying to escape from Ulm, or the subsequent conflicts between the Russians and French.

I have been reading a bit about the campaign but I am struggling to think of a scenario that isn't unbalanced and a foregone conclusion.

Cheers,
TW

I have been reading a bit about the campaign but I am struggling to think of a scenario that isn't unbalanced and a foregone conclusion.

I feel that this can be largely influenced by proper victory conditions, one side shouldn't necessarily need to defeat the other to win the scenario.

The next question is what scope of game are we talking. Corps d'armée would lend itself well to these early battles or perhaps something like General de Brigade might work too for some.

Battle of Wertingen
The French have a 2:1 advantage (~12,000 vs 5,500) but they arrive piecemeal.

Battle of Günzburg
Nearly even forces (~8,000 vs 7,000) but the Austrians have an artillery superiority.

Battle of Haslach-Jungingen
The Austrians have ridiculous superiority of numbers (~35,000 vs one French division) but are under the impression the entire French army is closing in support…

Of these I'd say the first two are playable if you select the right / appropriate scope of rules and carefully consider the objectives of both sides. The last I would skip, even if the Austrian player is outright lied to being told that Mahler is the advanced guard of the whole Grande Armée he'll still be motivated to destroy Mahler via a steamroll strategy ASAP. I suppose you could change the French victory conditions to reward Mahler for keeping his division intact while running a fighting retreat and then allow the Austrians to be ahistorical and bold…

Lastly there is the Battle of Elchingen. Here I'd keep in mind that the Austrians didn't retire because they were beaten in battle but because as Ney consolidated his forces the Austrian position became untenable. If you're looking for a scenario demonstrating a battle of maneuver this could be it…

Cheers,

The Bandit

TW,

Haven't played them myself (they are on 'the list'!) but I think the Napoleonic Wargaming Society of Toronto played a load at some point. I can't find their active stuff at the moment, but here's one of the archive pages if your google-fu is better than mine: archive.is/BGsaH

I do remember reading this one at some point: link

I don't play the system myself, but I vaguely remember looking through a really good scenario book for this period…was it for Shako 2? See in this thread TMP link and here on BGG: link

Glenn Pearce and Michael Hopper both post on TMP and I think the former was involved in the Toronto refights and Michael Hopper was co-designer of the scenario book, so maybe they will be able to shed a bit of light on it?

Regards

Then you might want to do a Mini-Campaign, or just a set of scenarios where the Austrians gain troops if they win or escape. Rather than sit, have the Austrians try a breakout or do variable arrival for the various French forces.

Whilst we are on the subject, can anyone recommend a good boardgame representing (simulating?!…:-) ) the whole Ulm-Austerlitz campaign?

Regards

If up until a couple of weeks before Austerlitz goes, then absolutely the Battle of Schöngrabern.

This obviously after having read the pages on it of Tolstoj's War and Peace (just a few pages, not the whole four tome novel!).

I often wondered "What if" an Austrian commander got brave enough to attack Murat while his cav was going thru the Black Forrest! Taking out Murat's huge cavalry force sure could have influenced the whole campaign! He would not have to totally defeat that force, merely force it back and take time to find a way around, eating up valuable supplies and time.

The Austrians were well aware of this movement and watching his progress through that hilly forest area. Murat even commented that he was very concerned of being engaged while traversing that terrain. He was truly at risk!

Hello TW & WW!

Yes we researched, played and posted the entire 1805 campaign on the internet under our old club name Napoleonic Miniatures Wargame Society of Toronto in 2005. We covered all the reasonable battles with maps, o/b's, overviews, AAR's, etc. Presently the site is down and won't be up until later this year or next. It will reappear under our new name the "Miniature Brigade". Sadly I no longer have my notes so I can't offer you anything until the site is back up. However, the best book on the subject for maps, o/b's etc. is Scott Bowdens "The Glory Years 1805-1807, Napoleon and Austerlitz". It's just full of details and will give you enough information for a lot of games.

Once our site is back up I will post a notice on TMP.

Best regards,

Glenn

We have played both Gunzburg and Elchingen a few times. The Austrian gets a whooping each time at Elchingen when we play, but probably because their C & C ratings were so abysmally poor i our scanrio, so that they had a real hard time reacting to the french, who quickly crossed the river concentrated on their flank and rolled them up (much like history actually). Gunzburg is a fun poker like scenario. You have four bridges and we let each side deploy secretly, so that they had to try and guess where to defned and what to avoid, quite fun.

thanks ,
for this topic in general! grts serg joe