"Are You, Or Have You Ever Been, A Man Of The Cloth???" Topic

Basically, did you ever resort to using a pliable drop cloth of some sort, or felt, draped OVER books and other things to create undulating hills and valleys?

Fantastic examples here:

link

link

link

QUESTIONS:

1) Are you still doing that, particularly when pressed for time, or 2) did you move on to above-the-cloth hills and other terrain features?

1a) Or are you still draping cloth OVER books and other objects for contour, but took it a little further by adding flexible paint and other texture mediums to the playing surface of the cloth?

link

Thanks,

Dan

This is my preferred method of terrain actually. I used to be a Geohex user but with the wear they were taking and the time it took to set up and take down, I decided it was't worth it. My wife sowed up a couple of big cloth sheets (8x6) and I haven't look back since.

Yes for space, sea and desert.

Rich Bliss/Stealth1000,

Did you add flexible paints and textures to the surface of the cloth/felt?

And are you still draping the cloth OVER books and other mundane objects, for gentle contours and elevations?

fenedgewargaming.co.uk/wp/?p=645

Dan

As with Rich, I used to use GeoHex but they took up too much space – so I use a cloth but I also add terrain features on top (roads, trees and the occassional really steep hill)

I´ve definitely draped my cloth over books and whatnot- my Little Round Top last summer was actually a few towels under my green cloth- but never with the great effects that I see in your pictures above. Gives me something to shoot for I reckon!

I use the cloth over styrofoam approach, only problem with books is it looks like cloth over books. Another thing I do is use vinyl floor tiles to smooth it out a bit.

Dan/Cacigue's idea looks excellent!

I use flocked heavy felt over styrofoam contours. Flexible, mobile and looks good.

Always

Yes sir.

Yes I am. I actually use green army blankets as the cloth. They are thick and soften the edge of the styrofoam hills underneath.

I do the same thing with a drop cloth…place batting beneath it to create hills or lanes and deep cut ditches, I use various coloured sand to make roads and rivers…

WarPanda link

Obviously a hot topic at the moment:
TMP link
Some very inspiring stuff in both threads.

Question: what is "batting" mentioned in the above post?

Doug

I am a man of the cloth in two ways, being both an ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and a (relatively recent) adherent of the groundcloth over hill method.

Doug

Batting: is a heavier type of cotton wool used for making quilts and pillows…I use foam board on the bottom then place batting where I want raised terrain; then I put down the cloth.

I use pins to define the contours, the foam board beneath allowing the pins to stick secure

I have long been a man of the cloth as far as terrain goes. The most interesting idea I played on was Greg Novak's pinned-down foam rubber mat. He placed items under an inch of foam rubber then pinned it down to create the terrain. Suitably painted it made a nice looking, flowing terrain.

As an aside, the very first picture of the very first link made me wonder what I was looking at. When blown up it turned out to be a Maypole instead of the weird alien I thought it was.

I do the same thing with a drop cloth…place batting beneath it to create hills or lanes and deep cut ditches, I use various coloured sand to make roads and rivers…

That is absolutely brilliant! And it looks amazing.
It's so simple, and yet never occurred to me.
Excellent, just plain excellent.

As an aside, the very first picture of the very first link made me wonder what I was looking at. When blown up it turned out to be a Maypole instead of the weird alien I thought it was.

Yes, it is not a model but in fact a still from the opening ceremony of the Olympic games in 2012.

Wow AB. It' worse than I thought it was. I thought it ws a model.

Yes, I use spray paint to break up the color of the surface and use felt to delineate forests, wadis, etc. I've got a bunch of wooden building blocks I use for ridges and rises and larger pieces of 1" and 2" foam cut into hill shapes. The foam is painted and go on top, but usually underneath.

Guys-
Just for the record, none of the pictures reflect my work. They are simply examples that came up when I did a google search earlier today. I was so impressed with the pic of the fella that uses the interlocking foam exercise pads that it made me wonder if I should give drop cloth/felt a serious second look.

Doug-
I can't believe that Andy and I started nearly identical threads and at the same time!!!

AB-
Duh!!! I completely misunderstood what you said about the Olympics pic. I really thought that it was either a model or some other scenic arrangement, but in miniature!

Dan

@DS6151 Thank you :) …it is very simple and you can create any battlefield you wish. And it's enjoyable

@Grey Panda: how did you make and then paint that corrugated steel roof?

It's a photo print on foam board card…a very talented chap in the UK makes them for me

How shallow do the hill objects need to be (assuming you're using pink foam/books/solid objects not batting) before you run into the soft spots where people can push minis down and make "instant cover"? The spots of unstableness is the one thing keeping me from going this route. I would try and find that undercarpet cloth or a mover's blanket that others suggested.

@Striker I know your question is directed at solid objects beneath the cloth, but with the tough painting drop cloth I use it would be impossible to push it down after pinning even if I used a book or something else solid

Yeah, I did it with a green sheet for a few years.

And I am ordained with the Universal Life Church.

@Striker: An undercarpet cloth or mover's blanket is too heavy to drape naturally over the contours. If a drop cloth is pinned down over compacted batting (the polyester kind used for stuffed animals, not cotton) it is solid enough to sustain the weight of any miniatures you'd care to put on top. Mind you, I've had gamers put a hand on a hill and lean over the table to move stands, thus flattening a knoll temporarily, but it always springs right back to its original shape. I've been using this same method for almost fifteen years now and never had any issues with "soft spots".

Using solid objects like foam contours underneath the cloth, or cloth too heavy to roll up or fold defeats the advantages of portability and storability which (aside from the natural look) are two of the biggest advantages of "soft" terrain.

Before pinning:

After pinning:

For the whole procedure:

link

I've been using a couple of flocked heavy felt sheets for years but i have always placed my terrain features on top, i never thought of trying contouring items underneath the cloth.I must confess i really want to try my hand at creating a rugged alien terrain using Stealth1000 tutorial and a sheet of leatherette that i have.

Just started using hills under my Terrain Guy mat. I must say the examples above look stunning.

I have in the past, laid out book and such, then cover with one of those heavy moving blankets, then laid out my terrain cloth works really well, you dont see all the corners of the book and what not.

Ok. The carved exercise mats is too good an idea to ignore. I'm off to Costco for a package.

In making the hillsides as smooth as possible, how difficult is it to tell where the hill is when it comes to determining where a mini is in relation to the hill? (I'm mostly thinking LOS, but there may be other situations?)

I worry about a conflict between aesthetics and function – I'm all for making the best-looking tabletop, but if hills have an effect on the game they have to 'do the job' in addition to looking nice.

Like Dan above, I use foam cut into contour shapes. In my system I want the contours to show to define visibility/dead ground: so the cloth isn't so thick or inflexible that it hides contour lines but is thick enough to give a good 'flow' to the landscape.

With regards to LOS I employ the "what I can see they can see" method so I use the small mini-lazers…bought 3 or 4 for a dollar each a few years ago. Works for me

Grey Panda: That only makes sense if the vertical scale of your terrain matches the figure scale.

Don: You can make the hills more or less sharply defined, but there's always going to be some kind of compromise between aesthetics and function that will require a judgement call sooner or later (unless you use hexes and boardgame-type rules to determine LOS, in which case aesthetics is a dead issue). Which way you tend to balance between the two depends on the rules you use (my own rules do not prorate movement, so the precise edge of the slope is less important) and the group you game with. Among the Gentlemen Wargamers a line of sight question is usually resolved something like this:

Gamer (to opponent): "I'm not sure that my artillery can see your cavalry beyond the slope of that hill. What do you think?"

Opponent: "It's pretty close, but I think it's blocked. We could ask the ref if you like."

Gamer: "No, if you think it's blocked, then it's blocked. Could you kindly pass the cigar cutter, if you're done with it? Thanks."

Impressive displays of terrain! Thanks for posting everyone.

Ted

That only makes sense if the vertical scale of your terrain matches the figure scale

Of course but if its just a problem that the terrain lacks precise definitive contour lines indicating the topography of the terrain then either employing a simple distance measure to establish height or even a subtle addition of a colored sand to indicate the contour intervals of height; all that's required is a little imagination :)

If you use books under a cloth for hills, etc, I used to use lots of spread-out magazines to make the terrain gradual and sloping, so it wouldn't be so abrupt.

I started wargaming in 1968 using Airfix 1/72nd scale minis and models. It's all we knew about then for figures.

We used a couple flat sheets my mom dyed with RIT dye for us. One was green, the other a tannish-drab. Tried all sorts of stuff UNDER the cloth like books, magazines, wads of cotton, skeins of yarn, etc.

Finally, we started making our own terrain using bits of ceiling tiles, and painted as best we could to match the bed sheets.

Great memories, though. Featherstone & Grant opened my eyes to a whole new world, and my imagination and wallet haven't been the same since.

"Great memories, though. Featherstone & Grant opened my eyes to a whole new world, and my imagination and wallet haven't been the same since. grin"

Great quote

I found out the hard way that being a man without the cloth could get you into serious trouble.

And also that there's only so many times you can get away with the excuse that it's a very cold day.

Chalons: this state of the art rolling terrain from last year's Society of Ancients BattleDay is actually a cloth system …

The cloth is made from stretchable foam cloth, and has a magnetic system to hold it down and make it conform without loose sags and drift. It was stunning (and won the event's terrain prize).

I played as a guest in the game and can attest to it being 100% playable. When/if the system reaches commercial evolution it will be something to behold (clever, the 2013 was just the latest generation of a new idea …) …

Phil
Ancients on the Move

I took the cloth in '83 forego'd it in favour of boards till 2000 and am happily with Terrain Guy Mats ever since.

Wargaming, its a journey.