bruntonboy | 24 Jan 2014 4:25 a.m. PST |
Just been thinking, whilst I have seen larger scale planes used "flying" above smaller scale model ships to show the image of being high up. Anybody thought of doing this with land based games, I am tempted to try this with 1/72 planes above 15mm troops, anyone any ideas of if it will look good- or stupid? There is also any amount of cheap plastic kits in that scale to play with, which is naturally another motive. |
richinq | 24 Jan 2014 4:31 a.m. PST |
I use 1/300th scale planes with my 10mm ww2 figures. This keeps the cost down. not thought about using larger models, I have some 15mm FOW stuka's will have to see how it looks. Rich. |
Ochoin 1 | 24 Jan 2014 4:44 a.m. PST |
IN BKC with 12/72-20mm scale, we usually have an aircraft or two a side. Even though their accuracy in low level bombing is diabolical, I think you'll need to be careful in having too many, unless what you really want is an aerial combat game. |
bruntonboy | 24 Jan 2014 4:49 a.m. PST |
No I only want the odd ground attack plane over the table, depicted loosing rockets. Just thought a slightly oversized plane would convey the height factor better. |
Texas Jack | 24 Jan 2014 5:00 a.m. PST |
Really it depends on point of view. With land based games, I prefer to be focused on the ground, thus I use 1/300 planes for 10mm troops. But if I were focused in the air, then certainly the scale differential would go the other way. |
Martin Rapier | 24 Jan 2014 5:02 a.m. PST |
Bizarrely, sub scale air craft look better. We are used to seeing planes as 'small', even though in game terms you are looking down on them. I use 6mm planes with 15mm, and we tend to use 1/144th planes with 20mm. If you game is from the perspective of the plane ie air warfare game, then use subscale figures/vehicles. Crazy I know, but it really works. It rather reminds of the close/far away cows episode of 'Father Ted'
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Marc33594 | 24 Jan 2014 5:21 a.m. PST |
With Martin on this one. We use 1/144th aircraft with 15mm (1/100th) and seems to convey aircraft at altitude. As Martin says although you are looking down on the scene it actually feels more like looking at them from a ground perspective. Plus there are plenty of light weight (especially plastic) aircraft out there, many of them already painted, and they work much better with most stands for them. I glue a metal washer to the bottom of the aircraft and the telescoping rod I use has a pivoting head with built in magnet and allows the aircraft to be placed in various attitudes, such as a Stuka in a vertical dive, something I cant do with most 15mm aircraft. |
kevanG | 24 Jan 2014 5:57 a.m. PST |
6mm planes with 6mm infantry,
but intent is using them with 1/1200 ships! 15mm planes with 15mm infantry. |
79thPA | 24 Jan 2014 6:59 a.m. PST |
I think i/72 would look a little odd. I'd go with 1/100 to 1/144. |
bruntonboy | 24 Jan 2014 7:57 a.m. PST |
Thanks everyone, I rather like that last picture, I suspect it may look similar if the ground stuff was 15mm. I think I'll have to have an experiment by raiding the lads Airfix box. I too usually use 1/144 with 15mm but this one case is a for a demo. |
LukeR78 | 24 Jan 2014 8:57 a.m. PST |
I use 1/144 with 15mm. The Zvezda and Revell Micro Wings kits in the scale are dirt cheap too. |
Rrobbyrobot | 24 Jan 2014 9:32 a.m. PST |
I use the same 1/72nd scale models in both my 15mm games and 28mm games. I enjoy building the models and don't mind the size difference. They don't linger over the table in either of the games I use them in. |
donlowry | 24 Jan 2014 9:40 a.m. PST |
If you're looking up at them, a SMALLER model would simulate height, not larger. |
miniMo | 24 Jan 2014 10:08 a.m. PST |
I also prefer smaller planes than ground troops, and use 1/100 planes with 1/87 tanks. |
Archeopteryx | 24 Jan 2014 10:12 a.m. PST |
I've gone with 15mm for 15mm, but only because of AIMs beautiful models! Although its almost impossible to field everything in 15mm
I have thought about 1/72 too, especially as I need a PO2 and find Zvezda offerings too basic as fulfilling models to paint. I have gone 1:144 for larger planes (a Ju 88 so far)
That stuka dive thing |
Archeopteryx | 24 Jan 2014 10:24 a.m. PST |
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Lion in the Stars | 24 Jan 2014 11:44 a.m. PST |
The problem with 1/144 scale air is that it makes some scenarios look funny, like the LRDG/SAS airstrip raids. Fortunately, there are a few 1/100 aircraft available for the desert that I can build. I have a pile of 1/100 scale aircraft for Vietnam, and I need to get a few more to finish filling out the various options (mostly helos, not fast movers). If I was focusing on the aircraft, I'd use smaller scale ground/naval models to force the perspective even further. Amusingly, I found out that a 1/1200 scale destroyer at about 6 feet is the same visual size as a real one some 800 yards away. Guess whose Normandy forces are getting a couple DDs for 'artillery support'? |
D A THB | 24 Jan 2014 2:07 p.m. PST |
Ditto TwoThree what a great idea! I have some old railing in the Garage and have been wondering how to hang my Helicopters and planes. I might spend the day doing that rather than finishing my 1.1 scale fence. |
Sparker | 24 Jan 2014 2:19 p.m. PST |
My 2 cents – same scale every time – those babies should be flying nap of earth!
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OSchmidt | 24 Jan 2014 2:20 p.m. PST |
I use aircraft models all the time. However I don't bother wih difference in scales. I use 20mm figures with 20mm planes all the time. Looks good. The only thing I use in a smaller scale is the Hindenbergs which are the Zeppelin Bombers in my "The Shattered Century" game. One of our members figured out a very neat "tripod" stand for the models and it works very well. In my game all stuff is sort of generic, so a fighter is a fighter is a fighter. I use my favorite fighter (P-39) and another guy has a squadron of Gee-Bee racers he uses for his fighters. Looks cool |
Jemima Fawr | 24 Jan 2014 6:43 p.m. PST |
Bruntonboy is absolutely right. If you're going to use the 'forced scale effect', it only works if the foreground models (i.e. the aircraft) are larger than the background models (i.e. the ground troops). Many people have the utterly bizarre and illogical idea that smaller aircraft models should be used. That only actually works if you're lying on the wargames table, looking up at the aircraft
Call me old fashioned, but my aeroplanes match the scale of the models. ;) |
tuscaloosa | 24 Jan 2014 8:10 p.m. PST |
If they made more 1/160 aircraft, I'd use them to go with my 12mm ground forces. But since they don't, I use 1/144 (although Zvezda's 1/200 scale for transport aircraft is perfect for Ju-52's and C-47's, since they're so big they would overshadow the ground troops if in 1/144). |
Mserafin | 24 Jan 2014 8:14 p.m. PST |
Many people have the utterly bizarre and illogical idea that smaller aircraft models should be used. That only actually works if you're lying on the wargames table, looking up at the aircraft
Actually, I've found it quite effective when I am sitting by the side of the table, looking across it. Since I tend to get into actual pain when I stand a lot, I tend to sit as much as possible when I game. Looking across the table at a 1/144 scale plane attacking 15mm figures, the smaller scale adds to the impression of altitude given by the stand. Added to the advantages enumerated above by Martin R and Marc 33594, and the availability of pre-painted 1/144 scale stuff, saves me huge amounts of time. So I'm sold on it. |
bruntonboy | 25 Jan 2014 12:16 a.m. PST |
I actually tend to agree with most posts here, despite it being my original dilemma! I normally use 1/144 with 15mm ground troops simply beacause the models don't dominate the table, especially if the game is on asmallish table. I also like the cheapness of the models and the ease of storage. I tend to visualise the aircraft simply as a marker that planes are overhead and attacking (or not as the case may be). However at the moment I am building a D-Day display game and here I fear a smaller a/c model will look silly. Especially as I want it to be modelled blowing something up with rockets on the ground. I don't want to make it look similar to a cow being stung by a gnat. So
1/100 or 1/72 it will have to be. Interestingly many, many years ago Stuart Asquith was writing about his 15mm WW1 games and he used 1/72 planes with them. He argued that if you looked at the pilot model in a 1/72 scale aircraft kit he looked 15mm sized anyway. Can't argue with that really. |
Archeopteryx | 25 Jan 2014 7:19 a.m. PST |
I'm working on a 15mm A-20C for my Soviets and its pretty big – I think 1:100 looks best with 15mm (and 1:72 with 20mm) for low level and spotters, and definitely for helicopters, gliders and transports (or anything else) you want to set-up on the ground
Battlegroup Kursk rules include some larger types of level bombers to provide an aerial bombardment option alongside the more precise attacks by fighter-bombers, Stukas and Sturmoviks – and I think these types (Ju-88s, Il4s etc.) are probably best modelled in a smaller scale (1:144 or 1:100 for 15mm or 20mm) if they are not to be too dominant on the table. I've decided to use some lend-lease types for my 1942 Sovs, as that was the only year they were really dependent upon lend-lease front line equipment (a P-39 and an A-20, and some Valentines and a Austin K2/Y ambulance), and AIM do a lovely P-39 and A20 and early Sturmovik. But I think any bigger than the A-20 would be very awkward on the table – so I plumped for a 1:144 Minicraft Ju-88C 'train-buster' to go with my Me109Fs and Ju-87Ds from AIM and Fiesler Storch from Command Decision (also a nice model, if only the landing gear oleos were extended, as in flight, instead of compressed as though its parked on the ramp). I have to say the old 1:144 Minicraft is a nightmare, bad fit etc. and took me as long to put together as to paint the rest of the air force, and I'm still not happy with it. With hindsight, I'd spend the few extra bucks on a Dave Schmidt model any day of the week in the future
As I said, I'm really tempted to go for a 1:72 PO2 – but slightly afraid it will look gargantuan on the table. |
ancientsgamer | 25 Jan 2014 10:00 a.m. PST |
Same scale or one down if there is to be air to ground or ground to air attacks. Strategic bombers should be smaller in scale still as they would be way up. |