Umpapa | 19 Jan 2014 2:25 p.m. PST |
Sd.Kfz. 251/2 (2 cm mortar carriers) – how many of them would I ever need? What formations did Sd.Kfz. 251/2 operate? In Operation Overlord 2 Sd.Kfz. 251/2 are used only in PzG independent motorized mortar platoon in formations of four.
In other systems, as section (half-platoon) of PzG heavy platoon in formations of two. Sources confirm second option: wwiidaybyday.com link link link PDF link Those indicate the presence of only two 2 Sd.Kfz.251/2 in each heavy platoon. Did the Sd.Kfz. 251/2 ever worked in independent platoons? Do I really need four of them, or maybe two will be enough? |
MajorB | 19 Jan 2014 2:33 p.m. PST |
Depends on how big a force you want to deploy
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Umpapa | 19 Jan 2014 2:39 p.m. PST |
Usually company in 20 mm scale, max battalion. I have full 20 mm battalion of WH and twice as many Soviets but I rarely put all of them at the table. Thats more then thousand figures. Now I am going to motorize them
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Richard Baber | 19 Jan 2014 3:21 p.m. PST |
Historically 10th Panzer had 2 per company (6 total) in II Battalion 69th Panzer grenadiers when they went to Tunisia in November `42. I just built one as part of my 69PG battlegroup. I have another "D" version with the support company of my late-war PG battlegroup. I would honestly say 1-2 is probably all you`ll ever need. |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 19 Jan 2014 4:43 p.m. PST |
I get by with 1 but that is in the slightly more abstract world of RF-2
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(Leftee) | 19 Jan 2014 4:52 p.m. PST |
For most game systems seems 1 or 2 suffice. Could go the 250/7 route too. |
Umpapa | 19 Jan 2014 5:30 p.m. PST |
Thanks, guys. Then two will be enough. You have saved me lot of headache and some space, time and money, You know. ;) |
Jemima Fawr | 19 Jan 2014 5:35 p.m. PST |
Virtually all armoured panzer-grenadier battalions (and panzer recce battalions) had a mortar platoon of roughly 4-8 Sdkfz 251/2 in the battalion Heavy Company. However, many units ALSO had a section of 2x Sdkfz 251/2 (or 250/7 in the case of light panzer recce companies) at company level. The Germans were never short of mortars! Sdkfz 251/9 with 75mm howitzers followed a near-identical pattern – a full platoon at battalion level, plus company-level 75mm sections (Sdkfz 250/8 for light panzer recce companies). |
Steve Wilcox | 19 Jan 2014 6:12 p.m. PST |
The late-war Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung's schwere Kompanie had a Zug of six SdKfz 251/2, plus one for ammunition that didn't carry a mortar (and a regular SdKfz 251/1 in HQ). KStN 1126a (gp) 1.3.1944: PDF link KStN 1126a (gp) (fG) 1.11.1944: PDF link "During 1944 there was also the introduction of a Mortar Platoon with six 8-cm weapons, each carried by an SdKfz 251/2, plus one more for ammunition and a standard SdKfz 251 for Platoon HQ." link |
Sean Barnett | 20 Jan 2014 10:05 a.m. PST |
The other thing to think of is the size of the battles you'll be fighting and the size of the game table. Battalion mortars might be several hundred meters (or more) behind the point of contact between forces, so you might not need them on the table. |
Lion in the Stars | 20 Jan 2014 11:58 a.m. PST |
From what I've read (mostly here on TMP), German mortar doctrine had the tubes pre-set for 250m or so, and the observers carried 200m of sound-powered phone cable. So your mortar tracks should be a short rifleshot behind your observers, and the observers would be right up there or maybe even in front of the lead elements of the company. I'd read somewhere that the 8cm mortars in the company came from the battalion's heavy company after the heavy company upgraded to 12cm mortars, so I went with four 12cm mortars in the Battalion heavy company, and a pair of 8cm mortars in the company heavy platoon. (I play Flames, and have an armored PzGren company with all the Heavy Company platoons) |
Griefbringer | 20 Jan 2014 12:27 p.m. PST |
From what I've read (mostly here on TMP), German mortar doctrine had the tubes pre-set for 250m or so, and the observers carried 200m of sound-powered phone cable. My impression that this was not a general rule, but for the very particular case of leg infantry advancing in very close terrain. This would allow them to quickly bring in some heavy support when the lead elements would encounter enemy. For more open terrain, for defensive operations or for assaulting known fortified positions doctrinal approach might be entirely different. Similarly for armoured halftrack mortar carriers their usage might depend a lot on terrain and tactical situation. And they might have the privilege of carting some radios (both for the mortar section and observers), which would allow more freedom than reliance on cable line for communications. I'd read somewhere that the 8cm mortars in the company came from the battalion's heavy company after the heavy company upgraded to 12cm mortars, Might apply to an extent with leg infantry, but in case of armoured halftracks individual rifle companies sported their own mortar sections already before battalion heavy company received any mortars. |