"Can any one help, Ottoman Turks battle tactices" Topic

I have recently been playing some Napoleonic games using the Turks and the Russians.

In one of the games some Janissaries units where charged by cavalry what would be there responce ?, we where confident they did not form square, but where very unsure what there responce would be.
This lead use into the a debate about Turkish Infantry, there training and there fire discipline.

Can any one HELP?

I think the Ottoman armies, including the Janissaries were in a decline by the time you are gaming.

The traditional tactics seem to have a faily dense screen of foot and cavalry skirmishers in the centre, then Janissaries and artillery sometimes in field defences. The best cavalry were on the wings.

I've no idea if that deploymenr persisted.

There is a good little booklet called "The Ottoman Empire and the Napoleonic Wars" by William E Johnson and Christopher Bell published in 1988 by Raider Books. There is an ISNB and it is 1 870445 54 6
I can't swear it will answer all your questions as its been a while since I looked at it but there is very little information on the Ottomans in this period in English.
I'd be tempted to republish it myself in 18thCenturyPress if I could get the author's permission.

There is a good little booklet called "The Ottoman Empire and the Napoleonic Wars" by William E Johnson and Christopher Bell published in 1988 by Raider Books

Hello Mac.

I have a limited number of copies available at bit.ly/TlevdK where there is also a free pdf with the contents page and publication details.

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia Limited :: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
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hmmmmmmm

In earlier periods the Ottomans used large amounts of field defences including stakes, chains and pits. Not sure if this continued into the Napoleonic period.

Infantry in the centre behind field works, backed up by a reserve of Janissaries and heavy cavalry, with swarms and swarms of light cavalry on each flank. In the late 18th Century, the Russians adopted an "army square" formation to counteract the Ottoman cavalry.

^^^ I picked up a book from Nafziger that says the same thing. I am not sure what formation the infantry would be in on the attack; I presume in the center with a strong reserve.

Hey Mac,
Except for the Nizam-i-cedid
none of the Turkish infantry would have bayonets.
Majority of Turkish units would probably fight
in a thick skirmisher cloud. Especially the
Balkan irregulars.
Mike

Typically the French cavalry hid during the Egyptian campaign. With the large masses of Ottoman cavalry european cavalry was outnumbered hence tended to not be available to charge in massed formations against Ottoman infantry.

Russian tactics tended to regimental level squares to fend off the Ottoman cavalry. Same for the Austrians with their handy closed squares… a forerunner of the "battalion mass" formations used later during the wars with France.

Ottoman armies tended to fight a defensive battle unless mostly cavalry. Cavalry percentages (of the army in total) for Ottomans could be double or triple percentage of european armies (or greater). Not unheard of to be over half cavalry on an Ottoman battle.

On the defense, the Ottoman infantry could elect earthworks or dig other barricades. Their artillery was almost always entrenched behind some form of earthwork or similar barricaded position.

For the Ottoman basic infantry, they seemed to not fear charging cavalry unlike the massed non-squared european infantry once in close combat. Their formation generally were more open compared to european shoulder to shoulder formations but with a greater (non-ranked) depth. Sort of an organized and controlled "mob" look. European cavalry ride into the "mob" and just get "swallowed up". That assumes they fought their way past the very sharp swords of the Ottoman cavalry. Loosing a melee to Ottomans (either cavalry and infantry) quickly becomes a "head lop off" as the Ottomans chased fleeing individuals and practiced their art of individual combat unlike european armies.

Mac,
Look at our gaming group's Ottoman national rules for additional thoughts. There are several links to additional Ottoman information embedded.

Ottoman Empire: PDF link

Other Islamic (Ottoman) States: PDF link

A small Ottoman battle I played in recent years:
Battle of Gaza 1799

link

M aka WR

Here are the References I used for my Wargame Rules, "Demi-Brigades in the Desert!" for recreating Napoleon's Campaign in Egypt and the Holy Land.

I also have put together OB's and Uniform Guides if anyone is interested. Let me know and I will email them to you.

Bob Henry

References for Napoleons Campaign in Egyptian and Holy Land:
Every source listed with * in the Reference is in my personal library.

Books on Napoleon's Campaign in Egyptian and Holy Land:
* Napoleons Egyptian Campaigns 1798-1801, MAA 79, Michael Barthorp, Osprey Pub. Ltd. 1978, ISBN 0-85045-126-4

* French Soldiers in Egypt 1798-1801, Warrior 77, Terry Crowdy, Osprey Pub. Ltd. 2003, Terry Crowdy, ISBN 1-84176-628-3

* Bonapart in Egypt, J. Christopher Herald, 1962

* Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars 1789-1802, Phillip J. Haythornthwaite, Blanford Press 1981 ISBN 0-4137-0936-7

* Napoleonic Uniforms Vol. 1, John R. Elting, Macmillan Pub. Co.1993, ISBN 0-02-897115-9

* The Ottoman Empire and the Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815, William E. Johnson, Nelson Enterprises 1988.

* The Crescent Among the Eagles, Johnson, William E., Nafziger Press, 1994. ISBN: 1585450065

* Armies of the Ottoman Empire 1775-1820, MAA 314, David Nicolle, Osprey Pub. Ltd. 1998, ISBN1-85532-697-3

* The Campaigns of Napoleon, David Chandler, MacMillian Pub. Co. 1966, ISBN 0-02-523660-1

* Memoirs of Napoleons Egyptian Expedition 1798-1801, Captain Joseph-Marie Moiret, Greenhill Press, ISBN 1-85367-449-4

* Napoleon In The Holy Land, by Nathan Schur, Greenhill Books March 17, 2006, ISBN-10: 1853673455, ISBN-13:1853673450

* Napoleon's Regiments: Battle Histories of the Regiments of the French Army, 1792-1815, Digby George Smith, Greenhill Books, (October 2000), ISBN-10:1853674133, ISBN-13:978-1853674136

* The Blue Nile, Alan Moorhead, Perennial 2000, ISBN 0-06-095640-2

* Guns in the Desert, General Jean-Pierre Doguereau"s, Praeger 2002, ISBN 0-313-32-32512-X

* The French Expedition to Egypt, M.J. Miot, Worly Pub. 1997, ISBN 1-869804-47-3

* Armies of the Napoleonic Era, Otto Von Pivka, Taplinger Pub. Co. INC, 1979, ISBN 0-8008-5471-3

* Napoleon's Mercenaries, Guy C. Dempsey, Greenhill Press 2002, ISBN 1-85367-488-5

* Le Armee Francaise, ETV Services 1998, On Military Matters onmilitarymatters.com

* Journal of the Late Campaign in Egypt by Thomas Walsh, 1803 (Republished by Gregg International Pub. Ltd Westmead 1972 ISBN 0576 171115

* The French Expedition into Syria 1799 by General Berthier, Worley Pub. 1990 by ISBN 1-869804-18-X

* Mirage: Napoleon's Scientists and the Unveiling of Egypt, Nina Burleigh, July 2006, Pub.: Morrow/Avon, William Morrow & Company, ISBN: 0-06-059767-4

* Napoleon in Egypt, Abd al-Rahman al- Jabarti, Markus Wiener Pub., ISBN 1-55876-338-4 (hard cover) ISBN 1-55876-337-6 (paperback)

* Napoleon's Egypt: Invading the Middle East, Juan Cole, Palgrave Macmillan, (August 7, 2007), ISBN-10: 1403964319, ISBN-13: 978-1403964311

* NAPOLEON'S CAMPAIGN IN EGYPT (Vol 1) French Armies, Grant, C. S. Partizan Press, 2006, ISBN: 978-1-8581818-524-8

* NAPOLEON'S CAMPAIGN IN EGYPT (Vol 2) BRITISH & ALLIES, Grant, C. S., Partizan Press, 2007, ISBN: 978-1-8581818-552-1

*The Battle of The Nile, Oliver Warner, Macmillan co.1960, ASIN: B0000CKTIR\

* Abercrombie and Moore in Egypt, First Empire Publishing 2004, ISBN: 0952630435

* Narrative of the British Expedition to Egypt: Carefully Abridged from the … by Sir Robert Thomas Wilson. 1803: link

* State of Egypt, After the Battle of Heliopolis, Reynier, G and J Robinson 1802, link

* Ottoman Wars: An Empire Besieged, Virginia Aksan, Longman Publishing June 2007, ISBN-10: 0582308070, ISBN-13: 978-0582308077

* A Short History of the Naval and Military Operations in Egypt, 1780 to 1802", Lt.Col. Sir John M. Burgoyne L'Expédition d 'Égypte 1798-1801, par Clément de la Jonquière 1899, ISBN-10: 1421245043, ISBN-13: 978-1421245041 link

* Memoir of a campaign with the Ottoman army in Egypt, from February to July 1800, John Philip Morier, Published by Printed for J. Debrett, 1801, Original from Oxford University, Digitized Nov 9, 2007 link

* The Discovery of Egypt: Vivant Denon's Travels with Napoleon's Army, Terence M. Russell, March 2006, Publisher: Sutton Pub., Limited, ISBN: 0-7509-4145-6

* The Importance of Malta Considered, in the Years 1796 and 1798, Mark Wood, Published by J. Stockdale, 1803, Oxford University, Digitized Oct 1, 2007, link

* Mirage: Napoleon's Scientists and the Unveiling of Egypt, Nina Burleigh, Harper (November 27, 2007), ISBN-10: 0060597674, ISBN-13: 978-0060597672,

* History French occupation, 1798-1801 Sources, Skakowski, A. M. (Adam Mieczysaw), 1877-1951; Zajaczek, Józef, 1752-1826, Cracovie : G. Gebethner,
link

* Guerre d'Orient: Campagnes de Égypte et de Syrie, 1798-1799. Mémoires pour servir à l'histoire de Napoléon, dictés par lui-mème à Sainte-Hélène, et publiés par le général Bertrand, Volume 1, Bertrand, Henri-Gratien, comte, 1773-1844, Comon 1847, link

* Guerre d'Orient: Campagnes de Égypte et de Syrie, 1798-1799. Mémoires pour servir à l'histoire de Napoléon, dictés par lui-mème à Sainte-Hélène, et publiés par le général Bertrand. Volume 2, Bertrand, Henri-Gratien, comte, 1773-1844, Comon 1847, link

* Final French struggles in India and on the Indian seas : including an account of the capture of the Isles of France and … ; with an appendix containing an account of the expedition from India to Egypt in 1801, Malleson, G. B. (George Bruce), 1825-1898, London : W.H. Allen.
link

* Histoire de l'expédition d'Egypte et de Syri, By Jean-Joseph A. Dupont et Cie, 1826 link

* Napoleon in Egypt, Paul Strathem, Bantam October 21, 2008, ISBN-10: 0553806785, ISBN-13: 978-0553806786, ISBN 0-86372-299-7, ISBN-10: 0863722997, ISBN-13: 978-0863722998

Relation des campagnes du Général Bonaparte en Egypte et en Syrie, Berthier, Louis-Alexandre, 1753-1815, Milan Impr. Rue Neuve, link

Poesie der Kreigskunst: Oder, Feldzug der Franzosen in Egypten in den Jahren …. 1824: link

Guerre d'Orient. Campagnes d'égypte et de Syrie, 1798-1799: Mémoires pour servir à l'histoire de Napoléon, dictés par lui-même à Sainte-Hélène, et publiés par le général Bertrand. Tome 1 by Napoléon Bonaparte ISBN-10: 1421239108, ISBN-13: 978-1421239101, ISBN-13: 978-0543948502

Mémoires sur L'expédition d'Egypte, par Jean-Gabriel de Niello Sargy, Officier de Correspondance, attaché a l'état-major general, P. Belfond (1984), ISBN-10: 2714416837, ISBN-13: 978-2714416834

Le Directoire et l'expédition d'Égypte: étude sur les tentatives du Directoire pour communiquer avec Bonaparte, le secourir et le ramener – Alfred Boulay de la Meurthe 1885, link

Biographie maritime: ou, Notices historiques sur la vie et les campagnes des marins célèbres français et étrangers, By Joseph François Gabriel Hennequin, Published by Regnault, 1837,
link

Web sites with info:

The Napoleon Series: napoleon-series.org

Histofig: link

Napoleon.org: napoleon.org

French Occupation Period: touregypt.net/hfrench.htm

Museum des ancient costumes Turks of Istanbul.: link

Description de l'Égypte, descegy.bibalex.org

Funcken, Les armes et uniformes de la période révolutionnaire jusqu'au Consulat (1788 – 1804)
link

The Sultan's Big Guns, by William Johnson. link

Ottoman Gun Sizes. link

PAINTING HIGHLANDERS TARTANS. link

Medicine in Egypt at the time of Napoleon Bonaparte. link

Flags and Standards:
Warflags: France, Great Briton. warflag.com

Napflags: France, Great Briton. link

Histofig: Ottoman. link

French Flags: Free Flags. drapeaux.org/Accueil.htm

Military Flags of the World 1618-1900, Terence Wise Blandford Press 1977, ISBN 0-7137-0824-7

Drapeaux of the French Army Line & Light Infantry, 1794-1804 tmg110.tripod.com/frarmy4.htm

Magazine Articles:

* Napoleon in Egypt, By Melanie Sue Byrd, Napoleon Magazine # 13.

* Napoleon in Syria, By John Dunn, Napoleon Magazine # 15.

* Napoleon & the French in Egypt, By Coley E. Cowan, Command Magazine Issue 52

* Battle of the Pyramids, by John Dellinger, Military History Magazine, April 1998.
* Napoleon Saves the Day at Mount Tabor, By James W. Shosenberg, Military History Magazine, April 1999.

* Final French Triumph in Egypt, By Eric Niderost, Military History Magazine, August 1999.

* Striking at Britain Indirectly through an Expedition to Egypt, Introductory Guide the Age of Napoleon.

* Ottoman Empire, by John Dunn, Introductory Guide the Age of Napoleon.

* The French Campaign in Egypt, 1798-1801, Part I, Stephen Ede-Borrett, Wargames Illustrated #34, July 1990.

* The French Campaign in Egypt, 1798-1801, Part II, Stephen Ede-Borrett, Wargames Illustrated #35 August 1990.

* The French Campaign in Egypt, 1798-1801, Part III, Stephen Ede-Borrett, Wargames Illustrated #36, September 1990.

*The British Army in Egypt, Stephen Ede-Borrett, Wargames Illustrated #42, March 1991.

* An Egyptian Episode, Arthur Harman, Miniature Wargames #68, January 1989.

* The Campaign on the Nile 1798-1799, Richard Gilby, Miniature Wargames #75, August, 1989.

* Death on the Nile, Part I, Gary Hughes, Wargames Illustrated #113, February 1997.

* Death on the Nile, Part II, Gary Hughes, Wargames Illustrated #115, April 1997.

* Death on the Nile, Part I, Gary Hughes, Wargames Illustrated #118, July 1997.

* Napoleon In Egypt, Dave Watson, Wargames Illustrated #249, July 2008.

* The Battle of Aboukir 1799, Mark Bevis, Miniature Wargames #144, March 1995.

* Middle East Disaster, The Battle of El Hamad, Egypt, April 21st 1807, Miniature Wargames #173, October 1997.

Nice list, ACR… thanks for sharing that.

No problem. I know a lot of them deal with the French and British, but it covers the Ottoman and Mamaluke forces as well.
I need to sit down and update them as some of the References that are web sites are no longer around. Sadly.

Enjoy and I hope they can be of use.

And don't forget, I have the Wargame Rules, "Demi-Brigades in the Desert!" for recreating Napoleon's Campaign in Egypt and the Holy Land.

I also have put OB's and Uniform Guides if anyone is interested. Let me know and I will email them to you.

Bob Henry

Thank to you all,

We will try and incorporate this stuff in to our rules

Bob

your rules would interest me greatly

F

Another book that can shed some light on the Turkish Tactics is the two volume:

Russo-Turkish War of 1806-1812 Translated, edited & annotated by Alexander Mikaberidze.

It is inexpensive and first published by Nafziger in 2002
I think you can still get it from him and Amazon.

For the Wargame Rules, "Demi-Brigades in the Desert!"
And OB's and Uniform Guides, just drop me a E-mail at:

badbobalbino @ aol . com

And I will send them to you.

Bob Henry

11th ACR

I have to say that is a very impressive list and a very generous response to Mac's query. Well done.

Do you think if I sent you an email I could have a copy of the rules and guides as well.

My interest is more the Ottomans against the Russians but the French in Egypt are of interest as well.

REgards

Send away, to all.

I spent a number of year researching then building my army's for Napoleon's Campaign in Egypt and the Holy Land.

Its a great period to game. It's a combination of Napoleonic and Colonial.

Bob Henry
badbobalbino @ aol . com

E-mail sent today.

On the way.

Enjoy!

Bob Henry

There is a Yahoo Group for the rules.

link

I know the Yahoo Groups site has been a "Major Pain in the Ace" as of late but it's still there.

Bob Henry