"anybody else tired of the latest edition?" Topic

Hey everybody, I've been playing 40k sincce 2007. I started in the 4th ed with orks, moved on up to 5th with dark eldar, and am now playing daemons in 6th.
I Hate this edition.

I feel like there is a rule for everything… not just a rule but a roll.
Dice rolling everywhere.
nightfighting, warlord traits, psychic powers, warpstorm, boon-table… etc. Its like really expensive yahtzee.

All of the rolling+flyers slow down the game so much.
Why flyers?
Well they take a roll to see if they come in, then they do 10 different special attacks before the shooting phase is up….

Now on to rules: why are there so Damn many rules?!?!
Every single model in the game breaks atleast one established rule, and has a special rule to boot!
The transition (even after a year) has been unpleasant, and seems to have made the game more competitive (atleast for me)…

Does anybody else share this discontent with the rules… or am I alone?

Why don't you just play without the special rules that annoy you and not use flyers?

Nobody at the flgs will agree to do that… already tried it. Nobody wants to tamper with their "competitive edge".
I'm going to try to find some guys around here who play 5th.
Complaining on the Internet doesn't do much good iI know.
I just wanted to see if people agree.

Yeah, try to find some less competitive guys to game with.

I'm not a power gamer who exploits every advantage of every troop or hero type, but these special traits add flavor and character to the game. I can see that they can be a turn-off if you don't study up on them and learn ways to counter them.

I am with you. I just stopped playing this edition, though the increased imbalance in the army books (starting with Grey Knights) plays its role, too. Once you see the army list you can mostly skip the game, and I really dislike some of the newly introduced rules.

How long until the next edition comes out?

Its a combination of ALL of the rules that gets annoying.

Most of my games turn into arguements over what rules do what etc. It just gets annoying, especially with everybody and their mother chiming in on how you are interpreting the rules wrong, and how you should have done this or that… it gets very frustrating.

Maybe its just my experience?

Nope, arguing and constantly having to buy and tinker with the same army is why I got out of it. Big arguments are what I get at work. I am proud to be a beer and pretzels gamer now.

One of my college students last year liked painting the figures as a hobby, but said he was unable to play the game--too many rules. He was an excellent student.

Two years. They have about a four year shelf life on their editions.

Does anybody know of a place where I can find people who play older editions near here?
All of the guys at my FLGS… and my close friends… are powergamers who want to stay up to date with EVERY release, FAQ, and codex…
I just want to enjoy my hobby again.

3 games this week, atleast 10 arguements, 12 wasted hours of mindlessly rolling dice..

Let me know guys!

There are rumors there will be a new edition next year (2014). YMMV.

Personally I like this edition: adds in some of the detail of 2nd without the close combat rules or the insane "moved 6" pilot got hit, go out of control and plough into someother formation" or the Herohammer.

Damon.

Why don't you set up scenarios for your games. Instead of just showing up with 1500 pts, make a scenario with the forces for sides already set. That way people can use the armies they have with the rules but you can adjust the scenario to make it more fair and only include units that you are familiar with the rules for.

We never play points based games of anything anymore really.

Buy a Titan proxy and use the escalation rules. That'll lern dem!
One of my best buds is big into 40k, so I just got back into it since he's been a good pal and played whatever I've thrown his way. I figure I owe him at least as much. Him being a competitive git, I'm building a power gamer army. Fun times ahead. :-)

I'd go with Pictors excellent suggestion of playing scenario-based games.
I've never played any version passed 2nd but it should still be possible to set up that way, yes?
Having a GM/ref is also really nice when that option is available. Settles arguments and keeps a good amount of friction in the game… no way to tell who's gonna win just by looking at the force lists.

The scenario thing is great if your local group(s) will buy in. That's the whole thing of the points system games---they're allegedly that way so you have a common language to use when you do pick-up gaming.

We have about 10 steady players in our group and even then we can't remember all the special rules. I'd like to see special rules become "special" instead of every unit, vehicle, and character having a handful. Suggest no special rules for usual troops, one for squad leaders, two for group leaders, three for named characters and four for those godlike beings who seem to join the tiny skirmishes we play (only about a hundred models aside!).

Hopefully as the game progresses into its 7th and 8th editions, it fixes itsself, by making special rules truly special, and eliminates those dumb random rolls.

LOL

I have just started playing again. I enjoy the 6th edition overall, I do agree that there seems to be an over complication of things.

I say take charge and run a campaign that starts with rules limitations and minimal figures/points (plays into the way you want to play), but eventually evolves into more grandiose all-rules and figures/fliers allowed (plays into their style.)

Since so many are keen on fliers – have one scenario an almost all-air battle and let them that want to play dogfight it out – You can sit out this one since you do not care for fliers – and since YOU are making the scenario and rules, you get to be judge and control how much or little arguing there is.

I don't get the desire for flyers in a 40K game, they seem like something better suited for Epic scale.

Flyers never made sense to me either..
Its a skirmish game..

The campaign / scenario idea is a good one.
I might roll with that.

I still wanna play some games of 5th edition. I can settle for 6th… but 4th and 5th are where my heart is

For me, I don't think it got better than 3rd edition, using the army lists that came with the core set. The current edition is OK, but more than 1500 points is a chore.

When it was released I liked 6th Ed (way more than 5th Ed towards the end, when Grey Knights were the most broken thing out there; balance has definitely improved since then) and color me a fan of flyers, but I agree that December has gone a long way to make things needlessly confusing with the addition of Escalation, Stronghold Assault and all those myriad 'dataslates' that were released as part of the 2013 Advent Calendar thing they did. I'm waiting for Tyranids in a week and a half to see if my previous favorite 40K army is viable again given the nerfs to assault armies, but until then I'm sticking with Fantasy.

Hopefully as the game progresses into its 7th and 8th editions, it fixes itsself, by making special rules truly special, and eliminates those dumb random rolls.

I do not think so!

It's GW's business model, constant fiddling and change!

New rules books, new codex's, this, that and the other!

I find it interesting that you long for 4th and 5th editions. I started in 2nd and quit after 4th. That edition was terrible. Some of my friends suffered through that and 5th, which they say was even worse than 4th but think 6th is a move in the right direction.
I have considered trying it again just to see how it has changed.

We are trying a new campaign at my flgs. Four games, 1000 points of 'specials' (fast attack, heavy support, elite, hq). You only have the 1000 points of specials for all four games, casualties are permanent, and you can take as many troops as you want to fill in your losses (you can also have a base HQ of 150 points or less). So if you have a space marine army with a dreadnought, a devastator squad, and a predator, those are all your specials for the campaign. If the predator is taken and destroyed game 1, you no longer have it available to you for the rest of the campaign.

I'm really looking forward to this. I'm hoping it'll encourage a bit more variety as armies wear down. Oh, and our games are usually 1250-1500 points, to put things in perspective.

Oh, and my son and I only use 5th edition codices. We won't upgrade to 6th until all the armies are updated – we find it just too unbalanced (this from my 11 year old son, who wins most games against 5th edition space marines, and has lost every game against 6th).

"How long until the next edition comes out?"

"Two years. They have about a four year shelf life on their editions."

"That edition was terrible. Some of my friends suffered through that and 5th, which they say was even worse than 4th"

Yes I started playing back with Rogue Trader and through 2nd and 3rd but quit at the end of 3rd.

Because GW was taking the game away from being a skirmish game and turning it into a vehicle heavy Min/Max game.

6th Edition is a bit better than the end of 3rd, 4th or 5th but GW brought in Flyers and large models that are not worth their point cost or the price you have to pay.

GW did that for one thing only – to force their fanboyz to spend $400 USD-$600 dollars to buy the 3 Flyers and 3 large models so that they can keep up with all of the other Power Gamers.

Because the Power Gamers don't care about having to roll 50-60 dice or in some cases 100+ dice per turn, if it will give them the chance to be the WAAC'er that they are.

Oh and I believe that this Edition will be around for another 3+ years since GW is moving away from the 4 year put out a new Edition.

Because WFB should be seeing 9th Edition this year but won't.

Nope GW is coming up with a new way to squeeze money from their Fanboyz loads of new Codex's or Army Books that cost $50 USD-$60+ each.

The best thing to do is stop playing 40K or WFB and use your models with a better set of rules that focuses on tactics rather then a dicefest.

The best thing to do is stop playing 40K or WFB and use your models with a better set of rules that focuses on tactics rather then a dicefest.

You got it in one

Mithmee, spot on target. For example:

chestofcolors.com/4dkay

Waste not, want not.

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Every single model in the game breaks atleast one established rule, and has a special rule to boot!

Hasn't that always been the way – core rules and every unit has special rules ?

(I dropped out of the advancing rulebooks – the odd game of 3rd edition (I think) is all I ever do now and that's rare.)

"Oh and I believe that this Edition will be around for another 3+ years since GW is moving away from the 4 year put out a new Edition."

Actually it's the opposite – the current rumors are that we'll be getting a new rulebook THIS YEAR to collate all the expansions and 'dataslates' they released into one official source (apparently a lot of people are refusing to play with Escalation or Stronghold Assault so GW's answer is to put them in the core rulebook so nobody can question their use). This is also assumed to be the primary reason that Fantasy 9th Ed has been pushed back to 2015 (that and the fact that the rumors are Fantasy will be seeing a radical change moving forward given it's increasing low revenue count next to 40K). Hey if they give me a complete set of army books for 8th Ed before they do this I'll be happy regardless of what they end up doing for 9th.

That is not a new Rulebook but just another way of GW to gouge money out of your pocket and into theirs.

Rumor has it they are planning to go digital with all of their rulebooks.

This way they can charge you each and everytime they make a minor update.

Oh and they will not have any printing costs.

GW calls that a win-win.

For the Customers well…

Expect to pay.

ALOT

I played one game of 6th edition at the beginning of last year.

I hated it. I played every edition of 40k since RT, back in 1987.

I didn't like 5th ed too much, either, but 6th (IMO) truly screwed the pooch then set it on fire.

What was with the allies table that completely threw out established background? Tyranids having NO allies, but necrons could ally with chaos? ?

I put my 40k stuff into the shed. It will get dragged out for Tomorrow's war games once in a while, but 40k is now dead to me.

"This way they can charge you each and everytime they make a minor update."

They claim that minor updates and errata etc will be updated automatically for free and will happen much more frequently than is does currently since they won't have to print anything. Personally I like my hardcopy rulebook so I'm not sure what I think about this.

"What was with the allies table that completely threw out established background? Tyranids having NO allies, but necrons could ally with chaos? Bleeped text?"

I don't mind the 6e game itself, I was really starting to hate 5th towards the end, but I agree the Allies table makes no sense whatsoever and chucks the established fluff straight out of the window.

Thing is GW has killed off the fluff in 40k years ago.

They only want to sell models.

Plus the really creative individuals who use to work for 40k have left or been driven away from GW.

Dark Angels as well rarely ally with anyone due to their own agenda that they follow.

Oh and if they do it would be other Space Marines or Imperial Guard and never any Zeno races.

I finally found 2 guys that I can pick up and play games of 4th edition with!

I can get out that daemon codex with confidence in a solid game for once in a long time!

Played black Templar vs daemons today…. intense stuff!
I had fun.

I haven't even touched 6th Edition. Frankly, I got priced out by 5th. I didn't even enjoy that too much- it was a boring, static dicefest, and that was with multiple fast vehicles, skimmers, amd flying monstrous creatures. I wrote deliberately-overcomplicated skirmish/RPG games with limb integrity and individual round tracking, record-keeping for vehicle window damage, amd accounting of half-gallon lots of fuel that played BETTER than 40k. The more we stripped out individual special rules and only used the universals and houserules, the better 40k-inspired games became. The rules- melee in particular- were among the worst-written crap I've ever had the bad fortune of dealing with.
I still have my models, but I doubt they'll see much use anymore. I've moved on to Battletech and homebrew. 40k just doesn't have any draw for me anymore. GW has gotten especially bad, and I voted with my wallet.

As has many others.

Though it was the end of 3rd that I last played.

I'm running a tourney for people who don't like 6th edition. Its called through the millennium, its a multiple edition tourney, with each victory being worth a set amount of points.

It's looking like it will have 20+ attendants, playing mostly 3rd and 4th editions.

Seems like I finally found solid opponents

So would 2nd Edition be viable and can we use Virus Grenades?

I decided to avoid the New Edition Shuffle and am currently writing a rulebook based in 2nd and 4th Editions.

I figured I'd rather write the 40K I want to play.

The bleeped text was simply the commonly used initialism for "what the?".

Since 3rd ed, when the necrons first got a codex, and their background stated that the necrons and their c'tan overlords had an undying hatred and inimity for the warp and warp-based tech (it was their weakness. They could travel very quickly through real space, but the warp was anathema.)

6th ed allows Necrons and the forces of chaos (including daemons) to ally. In the same way that Marines and Eldar can. Necrons AND psykers in the same force.

Yet tyranids get NO allies at all. Nor can anyone ALLY with them. So no "genestealer cult" resurgence, to perhaps encourage those gamers burned by that change back to the fold.

2nd ed has a resurgence at club level here. I just don't care anymore. I've moved onto other games – but I was never solely a one-game gamer. I always had another game going at the same time as 40k. Whether it was original battletech, Stargrunt, Void, Urban War, etc. Usually it was the other games swapped whilst 40k was the constant. Now, my main game is infinity.

I'm still enjoying the hell out of Warhammer Fantasy, but if the new Tyranid codex is as much of a train wreck as it sounds like it will be, I can see myself and several other club members switching over to historicals more in 2014. Already got several guys interested in doing 28mm Napoleonics, and might throw together my Bolt Action starter set and see if I can garner any interest in that.

The new WFB rule book being pushed back to 2015 is terriable news but if they really are doing a radical re-design it may be worth the wait.

Getting rid of WFB 8th edition would sure help – both player interest and the company's bottom line (we all might start buying figures again – though you need a second mortgage to do so.)

TomT