dBerczerk | 25 Dec 2013 5:56 p.m. PST |
I'm building Ottoman Turk and Catherine the Great-era Russian armies for wargaming in 54mm – 1/32 scale, using the rules from "All the King's Men." I picked up some old Timpo Saracen knights at a recent Toy Soldier Show, thinking they might swell the ranks of my Turkish – Chechen – Ossetian forces. There's a nice Saracen figure advancing with a levelled halberd that could easily be converted to a matchlock man, arquebusier, or musketeer. The spare ACW-era muskets I have from Toy Soldiers of San Diego are a bit too small to look convincing. A long-barreled jezzail or arquebuse would actually look better. Anyone make them in 54mm – 1/32 scale, in either plastic, metal, or resin? |
79thPA | 25 Dec 2013 6:53 p.m. PST |
Barzso has muskets, what looks like blunderbusses or maybe musketoons, pistols and cutlasses. Britains Deetail has some Arab figs that you might find useful. What are you using for Russians? |
dBerczerk | 25 Dec 2013 8:55 p.m. PST |
For Russians, I am using Armies in Plastic Seven Years War Russian infantry figures. They are the same poses as the AiP French & Indian War French figures, but cast in green plastic. I'll look into the Barzso muskets. I wish the Barzso FIW French infantry and artillerymen were still available, as they could also serve as Russians. The Barzso Barbary Pirate figures would also make good Ottoman troops, but they too are sadly no longer available. |
79thPA | 25 Dec 2013 9:08 p.m. PST |
Yes, the Barbary pirates would make great Ottomans. With as much demand as there seems to be for them I don't understand why he doesn't keep them in production. Do you intend to paint the Russians or use them out of the box? |
dBerczerk | 26 Dec 2013 6:33 a.m. PST |
Yes, I am painting the Russians -- green coats with red facings as per the Funken and Mollo illustrations of pre-Napoleonic era Imperial Russian Army uniforms. With three boxes of the AiP Russian SYW figures you can build two units of 12 infantrymen, each with an officer and musician. One unit of the kneeling and standing firing poses, and one unit of the charging and advancing poses. That will leave the loading infantryman figures (2 per box) available for conversion into artillerymen or standard bearers. I was tempted to order the Hat Industries 1/32 Prussian SYW command set (the only one of the three HaT Prussian SYW figures sets that still seems available). However, HaT 1/32 ACW zouave figures seem noticeably smaller that AiP ACW figures, and may not go well together in the same units. I do have some HaT ACW zouaves I plan to paint up as Ottoman / Albanian skirmish troops. |
79thPA | 26 Dec 2013 7:41 a.m. PST |
The AiP figs are a couple of mm bigger than the Hat figs but I intend to use them together; it is hard to be picky when you game in this scale. |
dBerczerk | 26 Dec 2013 8:10 a.m. PST |
-- 79th PA, Do you intend to use the AiP and HaT Seven Years War figures together, or the American Civil War figures together? In the same units, or separate units on the same table? I'm tempted to order the HaT 1/32 SYW Prussians to paint as Russians, but have only seen photos of the figures. Have you seen the HaT Prussians up close? |
79thPA | 26 Dec 2013 12:52 p.m. PST |
I have a few boxes of Hat Naps (nic looking figures)and I compared them to my AiP AWI figs. I intend to use Hat Prussians as Hessians for the AWI, so they will be in their own units. I would also mix a figure or two if I needed to do so. |
jowady | 26 Dec 2013 4:31 p.m. PST |
Andrea miniatures make a number of weapons packs in 54mm that may contain things you need. |
Botch B | 27 Dec 2013 9:39 a.m. PST |
Me too! Well, I am actually doing it for both 1683 and early Napoleonic as I have Austrians and Russians for that period
I don't have any earlier Europeans yet either. I have managed to get hold of the last of the Barzo Barbary Pirates though, having had Ron bring them over to the Plastic Warrior show last year! I may know a source of a few more but it is in the UK – if anyone is interested, PM me. Comparative sizes – always an interesting debate. We use HaT and AIP figures together on the table, often in the same units. IMHO the problem of incompatibility only arises when you try to swap heads – and even them sometimes it works! We have figures from 1/30th 60mm metal Del Prado through to original Airfix French line in our recent Leipzig game, with all the makes in between. Did it look 'wrong'? Did it spoil enjoyment of the game? Did anybody who looked at the spectacle (45 feet of table, 2000 54mm figures) complain? One answer – No! Did it look amazing? Did the converters and painters enjoy themselves? One answer – Yes! The HaT SYW and Napoleonic figures are excellent but check out Russian Command when you get them as there have been some with poorly molded figures especially the drummer. I had to send some back. But the whole idea of different Command, Marching and Action sets is just superb. As far as I can see the real challenge is Janissaries. What are you going to use for these? I got hold of some of just one each of the Cave copies of Elastolin/Hausser originals of their Ottoman Turks, which are 3 Janissary and 3 Other Turks.I'm planning to chop them up to make them 'multipart', make molds and cast them in resin. A UK company called Maros made some beautiful Janissary and other Ottoman Turkish metal heads, but unfortunately is no longer in existence. I have been trying to contact the makers widow to either get the molds or at least permission to remold the heads to get them cast by someone else, but no luck so far. Helmet make nice plastic flintlock firearms (though no arquebuss) and swords. The plastic they use is flexible but takes paint well and is more forgiving than say Historex's, which snaps far too easily in play. helmetsoldiers.co.uk Will be very interested to hear how the project progresses. I will post updates on my endeavours here too. |
dBerczerk | 28 Dec 2013 6:59 a.m. PST |
Thank you all for the feedback! I've checked out Andrea Miniatures, and although they carry some useful cast-metal weapons including muskets, I could find nothing earlier, i.e., arquebuse or jezzail. The Helmet Soldiers site looks very promising -- lots of useful items for conversions! Looks like I'll be putting together an order to them. The Janissaries in 54mm are indeed a problem. Valiant Miniatures makes a nice one in metal. I've bid often when I see them individually on eBay, but they always seem to go for quite a price -- too much if you're trying to build a unit of 12 figures. There's one on eBay currently, but it is in the United Kingdom, so I probably will not bid due to the postage expense. auction Valiant still produces the figure, but at $17.00 USD a copy, again too expensive for building units. link I am using Armies in Plastic Afghan warriors and HaT Industries ACW zouaves respectively as Chechen Muslim warriors and Albanian skirmishers. I like the AiP figures because the plastic is so easy to slice up, making conversions relatively easy and accident-free. Their relative low cost also helps me take chances on conversions, something I might not try with higher-priced figures. I am only using the standing and kneeling firing poses of the HaT ACW zouaves, as they are without bayonets. The Elastolin Ottoman figures look great, but I must admit to not yet overcoming my prejudice against mixing figures of different scales -- 54mm, 60mm, and 70mm) on the same table. I am delighted to hear that they played together well at Leipzig. The mixed-scale game in the clip below worked out convincingly for this group in Belgium -- a great looking game! YouTube link My dream is to one day put on a similar game here in Virginia. |
Botch B | 09 Jan 2014 9:22 a.m. PST |
Pretty similar to the figures I'm looking to use too. I don't like the HaT Zouaves as IMHO the Armies in Plastic ones are much better. BTW could you not just cut the bayonet off to make more poses to use? If I get the casting of the Janissary working I'll let you know, and try to cast some for you too. Keep working towards that dream! |
BigAnth | 18 Feb 2014 9:56 p.m. PST |
Looking forward to seeing both mens end conversions. |
Botch B | 26 Feb 2014 9:42 a.m. PST |
Me too! I have been gathering info and trying to unravel and understand the structure/organisation/types of the Ottoman army and pull it all into some kind of painting guide. At the same time I've been seeking visual inspiration of the various/varied/many types ready for conversions and painting. It's a bit fits-and-starts too given easy distraction into other projects within the SW group
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dBerczerk | 28 Feb 2014 6:07 a.m. PST |
The weather here in Virginia, U.S.A., has been quite bad for several weeks now -- snow, rain, wind, and very cold. Makes it difficult to undercoat any figures outdoors. I have about 40 AiP and HaT figures, respectively as Chechens and Albanians, waiting for their undercoat. Maybe a break in the weather this weekend. That would be a big help. |
Botch B | 02 Dec 2014 3:58 a.m. PST |
A friend who checks in here often has asked me about progress on my Ottomans…The Ottomans have not been top of the pile and so apart from accumulating a lot of potentially useful figures not much has happened…but I did pick up 5 metal Del Prado Polish Winged Hussars at the Donington Toy Fair on Sunday! I have been reading about the army a lot too, trying to get my head around all the different types. The Janissaries are the main challenge. I have some of the Elastolin/Cave (sp?) Recasts to use as masters, but need someone skilled at mould making to make the moulds so I can cast them in resin to get the numbers. I can see how to chop the masters up to enable the different poses to be made from a minimum of parts, but lack the confidence to get on and make the moulds! One item I seem to have found a lot of is artillery! My sister who does Car Boots keeps finding pieces in sizes from small to big. Once I have my current WWII Bolt Action French and Italians finished I must make the Ottomans my Winter project (I probably said that last year ;-) PS Undercoating/priming – have you tried priming with Button Polish and then undercoating with Artist's Gesso (black, white or grey, according to personal preferences), both applied by brush and no nasty nifs so fine done indoors in the warm. |
dBerczerk | 02 Dec 2014 5:45 p.m. PST |
-- Mike Blake: thank you for the update. Five Del Prado Polish Winged Hussars. That sounds quite impressive! My Ottoman project in 54mm also proceeds at a slow pace. I've been painting up 1/32 AiP Afghans to use as Chechen auxiliaries. Next up -- AiP Russian SYW figures as their opponents. Thanks for the tip on undercoating. I'd never heard of Button Polish previously, but had seen numerous posts here on TMP recommending Artist's Gesso. I've been meaning to pick some up and try it out, but have not done so as yet. Now that winter weather has once again closed-in, it looks like a fine time to try out your suggestions for indoor undercoating/priming. My Russo-Ottoman painting project was also side-tracked this past summer-fall, preempted by some metal 28mm AWI figures and some plastic 54mm WWII Soviets and Japanese for skirmish gaming. I did pick up some 1/32 Technolog plastic figures out of Russia -- Cossacks and Caucasian Mountaineers; which will eventually join my Imperial Russian and Ottoman armies, once painted. |
Major William Martin RM | 25 Jan 2015 11:01 a.m. PST |
dBerczerk; Realize this has been a long-aged thread so I don't know if you found your matchlocks or jezails or not. However, I do know of a source for the parts that you were looking for. If you will check with Ian Kay at Irregular, he lists bits like these on his site by going to 54mm/Scenics & Accessories. About half way down you will find a listing for "Rifle/Musket (please state period) – 40p". In dealing with Ian in the past, virtually everything on one of his figures is available. He has matchlock men in his ECW range with a good looking firearm, an early arquebus in his Landsknecht range, and a Chinese Pirate with a blunderbuss in the Pirate range. I would imagine that any or all of these would be available under that 40p line item. Another option would be to get the Technolog plastic set of Pirates and do a bit of carving and casting. There are two figures in this set that have pretty good matchlocks that could be carefully carved away from the figures. You could then cast the muskets in either resin or metal for your own use. I don't personally recommend this approach, but I know that many do it for hard to obtain bits. All in all, I would probably turn to Ian if Helmet don't have the bit you're looking for. I personally know that Ian will do bows, shields (including small targe for Scots), swords and even behead one of his figures. Since he can melt the unused metal down and recycle it, he sent me a dozen hussar heads in mirliton so I could convert some Italeri French Hussars for use in the SYW or AWI. All the best and good luck with your project Sir! Bill |
dBerczerk | 25 Jan 2015 3:32 p.m. PST |
Major Martin -- thank you for the suggestions. I find it a very rewarding experience to build unique figures for the tabletop. The possibilities are greatly expanded when you have a ready source of relatively-inexpensive bits with which to experiment. I have not found any 54mm matchlocks or jezails, as yet. The percussion muzzle-loaders available from Toy Soldiers of San Diego just don't look appropriate, no matter how much I try to obscure the detail Your tip om Irregular may be able to remedy my dilemma. |