"Just saw The Hobbit, the Desolation of Smaug...SPOILERS" Topic

Well, I just saw the second Hobbit movie, and I would say that overall it was a good movie, however, it was a far cry from the Hobbit that I remember.

I wish that Peter Jackson didn't have to "spice" everything up so much all of the time. Frankly, this should have been 2 movies instead of three. He just made more over the top action scenes to stretch it out.

What I didn't like was most of the scenes with the orcs.
-I hated when they quietly snuck up on the elvish defenders and ambushed them in their own castle!
-I also didn't like the barrel fight, because it was just so silly it wasn't even funny!
-I also didn't like when Thorin and company went in to fight Smaug. They should have died a dozen times over. It makes you wonder how Smaug ever defeated the dwarves to begin with!

With that said, the movie was a fun, action packed movie to watch. I just wish that Peter Jackson could make a good Tolkien movie!

Yep, pretty much what I thought. For me the pacing was too frenetic. In the first movie there was lots of action but it didn't collide all together like in Desolation of Smaug. I felt I had time to rest between action sequences and enjoy Middle Earth. Here it felt like all the action scenes just kept coming on top of each other.

I also didn't see why Jackson had to add a love plot between and an Elf and a Dwarf? What does it add? And when the Orcs were in Laketown (yes, spoiler, Orcs infiltrate Laketown) I wondered why the Laketowners keep a sharp watch on all the water gates…but on the BRIDGE connecting them to the land when Warg riders and Elves can ride into town with nary a guard seeing them…

Jackson, for all his talents, lacks subtlety. He's fallen into the trap where everything has to be EXTREME!!!!111!1!1!!

Well, it is a kid's movie.

I thought it was a little over the top too but not as bad as the first one.

I think Pictors hits the nail on the head. We have two younger gamers in our group (19 and 18) and they frequently absolutely LOVE movies with that frenetic over the top just plain silly level of action seen in this as well as other modern action flicks like the Abrams trek movies. They don't seem to particularly care about plot holes etc as long as something blows up every 1-2 minutes.

For that reason I have dubbed their generation as "generation twitch."

all I could think at the ending was "INCOMING"

That was Middle Earth? I was waiting for Games Workshop to issue a C&D letter. :)

The Dwarfs fight the dragon! Peter Jackson really is a twit.

"I just wish that Peter Jackson could make a good Tolkien movie!"

I thought Fellowship of the Ring was really good, and The Two Towers was right behind it. Am I off base from everyone else?

Fellowship was pretty damn good. The Two Towers slipped quite a bit, was better in the extended version. The Return of the King, despite having some very excellent parts, slipped so much that I can barely stand to watch it. The Hobbit was on level with the ROTK. I expect DOS is about the same level, or possibly even worse. At least the Hobbit had Trevor.

I think the Tauriel character, and having a love story, was a film convention Jackson believed he needed and I am okay with that--but the love connection being with a dwarf is just stupid.

I did not understand why he altered the book's version of the encounter with Beorn. This could have been a great moment of light-heartedness and some humor. Instead it was just some visual effects and little else.

Another head-scratching change is the encounter with the spiders and elves in Mirkwood. Th book's version would have been much better than the version he created.

Last, I think Jackson really blew an opportunity with the whole Dol Guldur subplot. Scene after scene of first Radagast, now Gandalf in the second movie, wandering through over-the-top ruins. I hoped he would show the castle restored and some cool scenes like of Minas Morgul in LOTR. Nope.

I did not understand why he altered the book's version of the encounter with Beorn. This could have been a great moment of light-heartedness and some humor. Instead it was just some visual effects and little else.

I understood this quite well. While in the novel it's a humorous bit, in a movie it becomes a very static scene, and a recap scene at that— Gandalf tells Beorn (and the audience) everything that has just happened, which the audience already knows, as dwarves walk in, two-by-two. Such scenes are risky enough in a book (though Tolkien pulls it off), but in a movie they risk becoming boring. Books can be about nuance and story when a movie has to place more emphasis on plot. The Beorn sequence, while a nice little vignette in the book, does little to advance the plot. The only important elements are that the dwarves learn they have to go through Mirkwood by the elf road, and make a possible ally in an orc-hating werebear. Check, check, plot done.

Having said that, I do agree the sequence was too short. The film needed more of Beorn and the initial travel through Mirkwood, and less of Tauriel, the dragon fight (well, none of either of these, actually). I had mixed opinions on Dol Guldor. It is more or less straight from Tolkien, with wide latitude for interpretation, and it does explain the otherwise inexplicable absence of Gandalf from the second half of the book (oops! My mentor character's been with the hero too long… uh, "Sorry, fellas, gotta go. I've got this, uhm, thing. You know how it is. Can't be helped. Bye-bye!"). Still, Gandalf in a cage… *sigh*. Whatya wanna bet an eagle lets him out?

The Beorn sequence, while a nice little vignette in the book, does little to advance the plot. The only important elements are that the dwarves learn they have to go through Mirkwood by the elf road, and make a possible ally in an orc-hating werebear. Check, check, plot done.

Well, part of the enjoyment I had with the first Hobbit movie, and the Fellowship, was being able to experience Middle Earth. There was enough atmosphere and lulls in the action to let me *see* Middle Earth and experience how different it is from our real Earth. In Desolation of Smaug one barely had time to get used to a certain setting before *whoosh* of you went down the next roller coaster hill. Having the Beorn visit with the animals serving dinner and such would have been a nice way to moderate the pacing.

And the Elvish army taking on the Necromancer's forces at Dol Guldur would have been awesome! Oh well.

I have rated both movies a 6. When jackson stays close to the actual book, it is great. But the endless orc battles, goofy ninja elves, goofy love story, Smaug vs Dwarf battle (ugh!), changes to the story for no other reason but to have more goofy scenes (too many to list), it just gets tedious.

I actually did not mind the barrel scene. It would have been better served had it not been book ended by endless orc clashes and ninja elves.

I haven't seen the new film but i expect i will enjoy it.
I loved the fellowship etc, and really like the Hobbit part one. Seems like i will be in the minority (at least on here), i will be buying the Hobbit part two as soon as it comes out ( i don't go to the cinema anymore). I don't mind the plot straying from the book too much, in fact rather enjoy it.

I didn't understand the premise of the first Hobbit film.
This giant flying dragoon comes in and destroys the entire dwarves kingdom, and their entire army. And then a small band of about a dzoen dwarves are going to go in and try to take it back from the same dragoon that defeated thier entire army?
Is that about it?
I thought visual effects, costumes etc were great, but had no desire to see part II. I thought part I was too long.

I thought Fellowship of the Ring was really good, and The Two Towers was right behind it. Am I off base from everyone else?

Nope! Other than the card board plate armor Gondor wore in the Return of the King, I had no problems with LotR Trilogy in general.

The Hobbit? Not so much. I am contemplating waiting for Netflix.

And then a small band of about a dzoen dwarves are going to go in and try to take it back from the same dragoon that defeated thier entire army?
Is that about it?

In the Quest of Erebor tale that links the Hobbit with LOTR, Gandalf is afraid the Necromancer is Sauron returned and that he'll ally with Smaug and tie down all the Northlands when war starts up. So the Quest is a commando raid organized by Gandalf to accomplish two things.

1. Get the Arkenstone into Thorin's hands to create a King that can unite the dwarves to counter Sauron's moves in the North

2. See if Smaug is dead. If he's not the united Kingdom of the Dwarves can throw a whole army at Smaug to kill him or drive him out.

At least that's how Tolkein wrote it…what Jackson did with it is a bit different…

To follow up on my earlier post, I am not criticizing the Dol Guldur subplot--I was actually happy to hear Jackson was going to explore this storyline. I was disappointed, however, in how he executed it. I thought the device of having first Radagast, then Gandalf, march alone into the gray ruins was repetitive and visually uninspiring. The whole sequence in Desolation lacked punch IMHO, relative to what I hoped Jackson would portray in the film.

There are some scenes of visual genius in Jackson's movies, but the screen play is a real stinker. I'm a huge fan of the books. I even liked the cartoon movie as a kid and absolutely love the BBC radio adaptation by Brian Sibley. But these movies really miss the mark; what a disappointment.

Am I the only one that felt that Jackson was taking a jab at the studios and greed with the excessive use of gold,and the way Smaug just stared at the giant gold statue?

Can anyone tell me why Smaug left the Erebor with 13 Dwarfs and a Burglar Hobbit with his treasure?

In the book Smaug was ENRAGED when the hobbit took a single cup.

But in the book he also left the treasure unguarded, knowing that the dwarves and the burglar were still around. Really, the whole "I'll go get the Lakemen" decision is slightly illogical in both interpretations. But it's based on the dragon in Beowulf, who does the same thing, so blame the Anglo-Saxons.

I did rather like Fellowship of The Ring, and it was the most faithful to the book of all of the movies. The Two Towers was my least favorite. They ruined Faramir!

"I'll go get the Lakemen" decision is slightly illogical

It makes sense to me in the book. Smaug determine that Bilbo was from Laketown or at least came through Laketown. He was determined to make Laketown an example. He wasn't worried about his treasure as he blocked the only route of easy escape and probably figured he could lay waste to Laketown and be back before anybody made it out the only other exit.

Of course, why I am trying to make sense of the mental state of an enraged Dragon. People do dumb things when enraged, I suppose giant fire breathing flying lizards could as well.