"Belgian TO&E in 1985" Topic

I have some quite generic TO&E for my Belgian forces.

I am looking for the orbats of 1st & 2nd Jager te Paard and the 4th Chasseurs a Cheval.

The 1989 NATO ORBAT doesn't have them listed, I may have missed them though but they haven't leapt out. I know one of them was based at arolsen (1989 orbat does have some errors in it but isn't generally a good piece of work)

In 1986 there was a Brigade in Soest, I remeber seeing Leopards leaving their camp once,

Tally Ho!

I have the brigade info for both Soest and the other FRG Garrison. Need some info on the light cavalry and recon units

Have you seen the Trppuendienst Handbook – The armies of the NATO Nations, thick little book, essential reading in the 80s!!

2 Arnd Recce Bns (1e Jagers te Paard at Arolsen and 4e Chasseurs a Cheval Arnsberg.

HQ/Supply Coy
3 x Armd Recce Coys
2 x Atk Pl – 6 x CVR(T) Striker
4 x Armd Recce Pl 8 x CVR(T) Scorpion 8 x CVR(T) Scimitar
Armd Inf Pl (Voltigeur) 8 x CVR(T) Spartan

These were subordinate to 1 (BE)Corps

A Mech Bde Armd Bn had a Recce Pl with 2 x CVR(T) Scorpion, 3 x CVR(T)Scimitar and 1 x CVR(T) Spartan.

Tally Ho!

Does the book have an ISBN ?

I have the info that they were both corps units but no low detail so that is great.

Can you confirm that it is 3 coys each of 2 AT, 4 Recce, 1 inf platoon ?

Yes that is correct.

Cannot find an ISBN number, there are a few books in the series:

link

Tally HO!

For 1989.
Page 82.
link

Can someone tell me what the impact in 1985 of the AIFV was on the structure of the Recce regiments

link

Using Google translate was interesting:

I tells that the Leopard Battalions stay at 40 tanks but that the Company organisation changes to 3 Platoons of 4 Tanks giving the Platoon commander the option of operating in pairs.

The next bit is the piece that I am struggling with:

La puissance de feu des unités, sous
commandement du C Recce, étant nettement
insuffisante dans l'exécution primordiale de
couverture de la mise en place du 1er corps
d'armée, il est décidé de transformer un des
trois bataillons de reconnaissance en bataillon
tanks, en puisant dans la réserve de chars
Léopard prévue pour le volant de maintenance
(opération blanche !).
Cette solution permettra d'aligner désormais
deux bataillons de reconnaissance, le 1er chasseurs
à cheval (1 ChCh) et le 4e chasseurs à
cheval (4 ChCh), et deux bataillons de tanks,
le 2e chasseurs à cheval (2 ChCh) et le 3e lanciers
(3 L).

It covers the reorg of 2 Recon units to match 2 Leopard battalions but the translation loses the nuances and I don't know the language to guess

The cut off in the book is 87 which still has 40 MBT – 3 x Coys each with 4 Pl of 3 MBT,

Tally Ho!

Thanks for the suggestions so far from Nick and 11th ACR

Any one any idea on 2nd JtP ?

Would also like to know the definitive of when the AIFV-B was actually fielded. First models delivered in 1983, Driver training and familiarisation took place sometime in 1984 but I have two conflicting dates for actually in service. The later one is September 1985. As my campaign is August 1985 I have some licence to field the AIFV a little earlier but would like to the know the actual fielding plan.

Back to my little book two x Armd Bns as Corps Troops -

3e Lanciers with Leopard – at Spich
2e Jagers te Paard ith Leopard – at Ludenschied

Tally Ho!

Hi CAG 19

I'm a MSH gamer with a interest in Cold War Belgians (I have 2 brigades worth of 1/300 Belgian stuff hiding in my cupboard :) )

FWIW I have a copy of a fairly comprehensive book on the AIFV in Belgian service called L'AIFV en Service a la Force Terreatre Belge by Henri Demaret ISBN 90-72547-32-2) which gives an introduction to actual service date of September 1985. The dates of manufacture were Oct 1984 to June 1987 with around 20 – 25 a month being produced. Maybe this is one source that you have?

It doesn't give changeover dates for each of the 8 regular battalions from M75/AMX 13 to AIFV.

The organisation of a battalion till 1989 is given as:

HQ/Supply Coy with Bttn HQ, signal, supply and maintenance platoons.
Support Coy with SPAT platoon (6 x JPK 90 Jagdpanzer), Mortar platoon (4 x M-30 4.2" mottars/Unimog 2.5ton truck) and Armoured Recce platoon (2 x CVR(T) Scorpion, 3 x CVR(T)Scimitar and 2 x CVR(T) Spartan).
3 Fusilier Coys, each with 4 plaroons each of 2 x AIFV 25 and 2 AIFV .50/Milan.

That organisation agrees pretty much with the information in the Trppuendienst Handbook mentioned by NickinSomerset of which I have a copy.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Thanks for the good info. I am interested in the fielding plan and what meant in service in terms of numbers of equipments and locations. The AIFV delivery wasn't meant to be complete until 1988. I am going to field one battalion initially and see what other info comes up

Does anyone know company TO&E

Is this walid

TMP link