"The Continuing Adventures of a Certain Hobbit.." Topic

We triumphed over the weather and went to see THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG on Saturday. To give a thumbnail, I did like, more than I liked the first one, which I also liked. It's a little thinner than the the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but if you can forgive Peter Jackson for that in advance, you'll have a good time.

My full up review is here: ‌link

Warning, there's some spoilers there, of the mild kind.

What's the connection to miniatures? Well, this movie is setting up the Battle of Five Armies, which I suspect we'll be seeing ALL kinds of games for next year.

Thanks for your interest and time.

Walt

I have accepted that the movies are going to be different from the book and enjoy them for what they are. There's a lot of action and extra plot add to make three movies out of it.

Still a lot better than your average movie and better than the first Hobbit movie.

As far as miniatures go, I don't understand why GW has not released a Smaug miniature for their game?

Just saw it myself. The guy who plays Bilbo is great.

And if you don't like this one, try watching the Orson Bean cartoon version.

SPOILER ALERT

Walt, I agree with your review. Some additional thoughts:

- very good action scenes, the elves chasing the orcs chasing the barrels down the river was well done.

- One of the few false notes was the crack by Kili as he was imprisoned, when he asked Tauriel if she was going to search his pants. This is the only time in any of the movies, or books, that sex is referred to, even obliquely. It just doesn't work. Somehow brings the tone down a notch.

- The whole sequence towards the end where the dwarves smelt the golden king somehow didn't work, as a final result. I didn't really understand what they were trying to do, or what the point was; the figure held, then toppled.

The Lake town seemed a bit… small and minor, thrown together. The souvereign holds a grand assembly, with all of 15 or 20 citizens there? Really no streets or thoroughfares, even canals like Venice? I liked the individual house modeling, and the portals, etc, but the overall town seemed to lack something.

- If I were Bilbo, time to having a counseling session with my erstwhile employers, the dwarves. Bilbo has gotten them out of every single scrape up to now, and in addition had to fight for his own life and to save dwarves. If Bilbo's the burglar, and the dwarves handle the fighting, time they live up to their side of the bargain.

But other than those minor points, very good all around. Smaug really came off well, the detailing, drawing, animation, and his lines and whole persona. Exciting action, but things moved just quick enough to follow. I could easily return and see this movie three more times, just to catch more details.

Have you seen the trailer for Seventh Son? Hold on to your hats boys and girls, it looks pretty awesome :-)

Opens in January (14th, I believe?)

Tuscaloosa, you know, you're absolutely right. The bit about searching Kili's pants did seem a bit pedestrian and played for a cheap laugh compared to the normal tone of the series.

I had a similar reaction about the smelting the giant Thror statue scene. I was comparing notes with my son Garrett on the way home that night-- "Okay, so what I THINK they did was magically smelt all this ore, see, and then pour it into a mold, then JUST HAPPEN to have Smaug near when they broke the mold? Kind of? With that said, confusing as it was, I kind of like the unique dwarven flavor of that scene. It wouldn't have worked with anyone else.

I also had a very similar reaction on Bilbo's behalf.. count how many times the Dwarves have been in a serious fix on this journey, and count how many times, directly and indirectly, a Hobbit had to get them out of it. Hmmmm.. I'd be asking for a bonus, if I were in his wooly toes!

I think the Dwarves were trying to kill Smaug by drowning him in molten gold, it would have been ironic.

My question is did Bilbo find his courage or did the Ring make him grow a pair? He becomes heroic after he gets the ring. He puts it on then he gets in trouble.

Any comments?

I enjoyed it, mostly agreeing with the caveats here. I disagreed on Laketown, I think it fit the bill quite nicely as a shadow of the former Dale, eeking out an existence on the edge of dangerous territory. I thought their defenses were stupidly lax.
I am not sure why they decided on the tight timeline. I don't see it adding to the drama

Just got back from the show. Awsome!

Not sure why the orcs went into Laketown?? Ambush 'em in the wilderness seems more Bolg's style.

Thought Laketown was well done..a shadow of what Dale had been. Loved Stephen Fry as the Master of Laketown!

The huge amount of gold poured into the 'Golden King' could not possibly have cooled in the time that passed. That was the plan. The dwarves broke the mold before more than just a skin could harden. The hot gold inside simply melted the statue from the inside. Actually quite believable.

My main problem was the story seemed too rushed. That and too many scenes with Legolas. (Tauriel I can tolerate!)

As in the book, the whole mission falls apart without Bilbo. However, don't forget that with the Ring he is far more powerful than any of them.

"The connection between Smaug and Sauron is just there for convenience– there was little or no indications that either party cared about the other one whit in the novels."

I haven't seen the film yet, so I'm not sure what the exact nature of the connection they added between the two is, but I recall in The Quest of Erebor, that part of Gandalf's motivation to get Thorin to go on this quest now is that he fears Sauron would indeed try to ally with Smaug in any future conflict (e.g., the War of the Ring). Thorin is partly Gandalf's cat's paw against Sauron.

" One of the few false notes was the crack by Kili as he was imprisoned, when he asked Tauriel if she was going to search his pants. This is the only time in any of the movies, or books, that sex is referred to, even obliquely. It just doesn't work. Somehow brings the tone down a notch."

there was the following not as pbvious quip in the first movie –

Bilbo: [grabbing a doily from Nori] Excuse me, that is a doily, not a dishcloth.

Bofur: But it's full of holes!

Bilbo: It's supposed to look like that, it's croquet.

Bofur: Oh, and a wonderful game it is too, if you've got the balls for it. [laughs]

not overly sexual but it gave me a moment's pause as there is no innuendo in any of Hobbit/LOTR books

Yes, I'd understood, from the various Tolkein "backup" histories, that Gandalf had feared that Smaug would have been a powerful weapon in Sauron's arsenal, and accordingly had his own agenda in pushing matters on apace in the north. A huge defeat of the northern orcs was also a bonus.
Even without Smaug, the dwarves and Men of Dale were seriously up against it in the War of the Ring [see the appendices to ROTK]
With Smaug and the northern orcs available, Rivendell would have been in danger, and by extension the weakly defended lands to the west including Bree and the Shire.
Frodo and co would have found a lot worse waiting for them back home than a weakened Saruman.

I recall one of the dwarves at the party in the first film threatening to stick a sword "right up Smaug's jacksey".
I don't recall the exact words but this sort of thing jars. It wasn't considered necessary in the LOTR trilogy. Maybe it's because The Hobbit is perceived as more of a romp and less epic than LOTR?

I agree with most of what is said above. Good fun, enjoyed it immensely.

I did miss one line from Bilbo and the book, that I thought they should have got in there. "Never laugh at live dragons."

Can't wait to see it again, Xin

I agree that from a strategic perspective, the Quest for Erebor negated Sauron's Northern strategy. However, I stand by the statement that it is never overtly mentioned in the narrative of either book, only in the copious Appendices at the end of the Return of the King. Even more important, at the time of the Hobbit, the White Council was just finding out that the Necromancer was, in fact, Sauron. They invade Dol Goldur later that year (the same year as the Erebor journey, 2941). I'm not sure how much they could have known or guessed at that point but it seems like it might have been a little premature to guess at the grand strategy of an opponent you haven't really identified yet, so it just came off as a little too convenient in the movie.

Your review is spot on with my own experience of the film— so much so that if I were to write a review, it wouldn't be significantly different or better than your own. So I'll just say "What Walt said," and leave it be!

I will say that as I was watching, I would have moments where I thought "Yep, right in there with the book" or "Well, that's not in the book, but I'm okay with it," or "Not in the book, and I don't like it." Fortunately, the two former responses outnumbered the latter. I also suspect that I will enjoy the film (and the first one) better with a second viewing, as the alterations won't be nearly as jarring.

And while I didn't care all that much for the "battle beneath the Mountain," as I was watching I *did* appreciate that Thorin's plan was a uniquely dwarvish approach (though the big mold was awfully convenient to just happen-to-have-in-place).

I really hope there were not any ridiculous, stupid scenes like that horrific chase/fight with the Goblin King in the first film…? Love Peter Jackson, but he becomes a gibbering idiot for over the top, ridiculous scenes like that… remember the RIDICULOUSLY stupid swinging T-Rexs (yep, that is plural!) in King Kong? KILLS me that such a smart director can give in to such childish stupidity.

I am nervous about anything involving the barrels… I can FEEL the stupid leaking through. Am I wrong?

Wasn't that Peter jackson coming out of the Prancing Pony at the start of the movie?

I actually quite enjoyed the barrel sequence, though it did closely resemble an amusement park water ride (call that a prediction, btw). Still, you can't exactly film a bunch of people packed inside sealed barrels in a river and have it be any level of exciting, so having the barrels become open-topped one-man boats worked for me, and the ride down the river, fighting orcs and dodging rapids (or not) was a lot of fun. And I'm going to give in to PJ's instincts on this one, as the sequence provoked much delighted laughter among the children throughout the theater I was in.

The only other big, over-the-top thrill ride sequence was what I call "the battle under the Mountain." Setting aside the "that's not in the book" aspect of the battle under the Mountain (you'll have to see it to understand), I actually thought that fight was mostly acceptable (if a bit conveniently staged for the dwarves). It was certainly played more for excitement than laughs, but at least the elements (components of a dwarven mine) made sense. My real beef with it was the the great departure from the book (in which only Bilbo ever encounters or interacts with Smaug), and that I found it unbelievable that after such a hard chase, the dragon would suddenly decide to "save the dwarves for later" and instead fly off to attack Laketown. (I felt that Boyens and Walsh wrote themselves into a hole on that one, and then just waved their hands about a bit to get themselves out). But maybe they thought Tolkien had created the same problem, because even in the book Smaug somewhat inexplicably abandons his dwarf hunt to instead punish the Lakemen.

So none of it was really stupid,* but it certainly wasn't purist!

*Well, except the dwarf/she-elf "love" story… gaaaaaaaag. Just grit your teeth and bear it, and know they both probably die at the end.

abelp01. Yep, that was Peter Jackson at Bree for about 1.5 seconds.

And this review:
link
and this:
link
And this just in!!!
link

Sorry, but I got distracted by the NYPD 'stop and kiss' program item. Now that most of the police forces in this country seem to have been assimilated into that organisation I'll be steering well clear.

In all honesty I think I'd rather police bashings than police pashings.

I guess I am the odd man out here.

My wife wanted to see it, so we went.

I hated it. Start to finish.

It seemed to be an overly done, bloated cash grab.

While the CGI was ok in most parts (Smaug was well done), I think the barrel scene was hokey. Too many 'missing frames' and things looked WAY too fake and too fast so that the viewer's 'suspension of disbelief' was in jeopardy too often. IMO, especially in that 'high def 3-d' version we saw. Cheesy.

For me, that scene really dropped the 'feel' of the movie and it got worse from there.

And now that Parzival has mentioned it, it looked like it was only put in there to support a 'water ride' at the projected Orlando park.

And what's with the elf/elf/dwarf love triangle??? Really? Did this movie needed that?
Even Lilly didn't want it… link

While I am in no way a Toliken fan, but this still felt too far fetched from the book. Kinda like butter spread on bread too thin… or something like that…

It rubbed me the wrong way from start to finish.
Not for me, I guess.

The one good thing about this coming out this weekend, there was plenty of open gaming tables at the Shop, as all of the fanboys were out there on Friday night.

Enjoyed it quite a bit – my kid loved the barrel scene as well. I can probably talk him into seeing it again. :)

Ugh. Any reports of kids loving the barrel scene just makes me feel like I am going to hate the movie.

Any reports of kids loving the barrel scene just makes me feel like I am going to hate the movie.

You probably are, but please go ahead and watch it anyway. It will be nice to have yet another person griping about it in here ;)

Otto the Great,

I think the Dwarves were trying to kill Smaug by drowning him in molten gold, it would have been ironic.
My question is did Bilbo find his courage or did the Ring make him grow a pair? He becomes heroic after he gets the ring. He puts it on then he gets in trouble.

Any comments?

Yeah I think the Dwarves were trying to drown Smaug. I think Bilbo already had a lot of courage bottled up inside him. The scene in the first film when he rushes out of his hobbit hole waving the contract and shouting "I'm going on an adventure!" is really lovely, and shows that he already had a lot of courage. The ring just helps him.

LordAsram,

I really hope there were not any ridiculous, stupid scenes like that horrific chase/fight with the Goblin King in the first film…? Love Peter Jackson, but he becomes a gibbering idiot for over the top, ridiculous scenes like that… remember the RIDICULOUSLY stupid swinging T-Rexs (yep, that is plural!) in King Kong? KILLS me that such a smart director can give in to such childish stupidity.

I am very sorry to have to tell you this but there is a stupid scene almost identical to the one with the swinging T-rex in King Kong.
I like Jackson and I love the Hobbit films but he does a good job of almost totally destroying what would otherwise be an extraordinary movie with the last 20 minutes.
All the stuff from the original book is done very well indeed; the spiders, Mirkwood, everything involving Bilbo, Thranduil, Smaug, Beorn, Laketown, the mountains of gold in Erebor etc etc etc. All brilliant. The trouble is that all the stuff that they needed to pack in (in order to fill Hollyweeds disgusting bloated gluttonous appetite for 3 films when one or two would have sufficed) added NOTHING at all to the films. Its all been done before. We don't need to see Legolas surfing down steps again, or another Boss Orc that looks just like Azog, or silly T-rex style swinging on rope scenes. Even the bit with the molten gold is a rip off from a previous movie (Aliens 3).

Stick to the source material Jackson and stop taking gratuitous liberties with our classics.

Other than that the 5 Middle Earth movies we have so far are absolutely stunning, and better than anything I could ever have expected. The changes are not terminal by any means, and I can't wait to see the Desolation of Smaug again.

You know, I think the problem here is that I love the epic grandeur of the world building a lot more than the action sequences, excepting big battles that don't feature Legolas.

Walt

Not bad. The romance stuff seemed like a bit of a stretch for both the story and the actors.

Most of the action wasn't bad but I seem to remember the encounter with the spiders in the book to be more of a battle of wits between Bilbo and the spiders than an all out brawl in the middle of Mirkwood.

Really liked Thranduil's allusion to fighting the wyrms of the north – seems like fodder for a campaign game…

Seen it on Friday…not bad, but less of a story and more of action thriller than all previous films, including LotR.
And you can't blame dwarves for trying to drown dragon in molten metal…it worked even on terminator, you know….;)

I think most of the movie's problems are related to the fact that Jackson is trying to make the Hobbit both the kids' bedtime story that it actually was, and the prequel to LOTR. One is a serious work of fantasy, the other a lighthearted campfire-scare. The biggest result is that the dwarves are bipolar: Half the time they are cowards, the other half heroes. Half the time they couldn't pour water out of a boot with the instructions written on the bottom, the other half they are the world's greatest jugglers and gymnasts. The most annoying thing however, is the foreshadowing around the ring. It was just a tool in the Hobbit, not the ultimate evil…

It's a good set of movies so far, but I think I'll have to ignore the book to extract the most enjoyment out of it.