"Bumper Ships in the South China Sea" Topic

Looks like the Chinese haven't learned anything from their aircraft loss a decade ago, when they rammed our recon bird in international waters.

Now, apparently, taking a page out of Soviet Cold War naval tactics they used to use in the Mediterranean, they're playing Bumper Ships in the South China Sea:

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Seems like as good as any way to start off your wargaming scenario, if you want to run a hypothetical battle, or two.

The guys playing bumper boats in the Med were known to come back with rather large holes in their hulls after smartass bosuns welded jagged ripper teeth to the side of their ships!

I also don't think that will go very well with Naval Vessel Exclusion Zones 100yds from the hull. "Reverse course Immediately or you will be fired on!" Warning shots permitted at the discretion of the Captain and to ONLY be fired by the CO's direct order, the standard is to fire for effect.

So there is now a "Sea Defense Zone" apparently.

From CNN.
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What are folks using to game this sort of thing? Shipwreck?

Shipwreck for me, and probably C21 for the aerial scenarios.

You could modify the rules for the Cod Wars between Iceland and Britain and use those as well if it's just bumper-ships at this point.

Well, the Chinese best hope they don't have any more embassies down range of us. Accidents are a terrible thing. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

I thought they wanted those islands from the Japanese. From a strategic viewpoint, shouldn't the Chinese try to diplomatically isolate Japan instead of pushing the U.S. into their camp?

On the other hand, a damaged amphib docking ship and a damaged Ticonderoga both having to retire from the area for repairs… sounds like a Chinese victory to me.

I was just commenting to our local group, a modern naval scenario with hostilities initiated while ships are very close to each other (or even intermingled) would be something that had not occurred to me. Thinking about it now…

Chalfant

I thought they wanted those islands from the Japanese. From a strategic viewpoint, shouldn't the Chinese try to diplomatically isolate Japan instead of pushing the U.S. into their camp?

Except that the US is treaty-bound to defend Japanese territory, and has recognized the Senkaku Islands as Japanese territory since 1945.

However, major US combatants having to pull out for repairs would probably be a Chinese victory.

The question is, what's the definition of damage needing shipyard repairs? The USN still has the best damage control teams, has since WW2.

Looks like the Chinese haven't learned anything from their aircraft loss a decade ago, when they rammed our recon bird in international waters.

Yes they did. They learned they could get away with it.

They lern from Moltke and Clausewitz.

"Moltke the Elder maintained that the strongest form of warfare is strategic offense combined with tactical defense. In practice that means wresting something from an outmatched or unready opponent and daring that opponent to take it back. Since defense is stronger than offense according to Clausewitz, seizing a disputed object preemptively confers advantages. It compels the opponent to undertake a costly offensive; he might find himself cast as the aggressor, with all the political baggage that entails. In short, an enterprising power can obtain what business folk call a "first-mover advantage" (hat tip: Toshi Yoshihara), preempting competitors in a contested theater or other dispute.

Nor is the geostrategic first-mover advantage the sole preserve of stronger competitors. Indeed, Clausewitz notes that a weaker power may pick a fight with a stronger one if its leadership has resigned itself to using force and believes its prospects of success are as good as they're going to get. Clausewitz writes: "Supposing that a minor state is in conflict with a much more powerful one and expects its position to grow weaker every year. If war is unavoidable, should it not make the most of its opportunities before its position gets still worse?" Now-or-never logic may goad the lesser power into action. Now suppose the weaker contender sees the trendlines going its way — it believes its strength is on the upswing while its rival's is in decay — but frets that the favorable outlook may not last. The pressure to leap might grow unbearable.

I'm starting to think China has contacted Moltke and Clausewitz through its strategic Ouija board. It's possible to interpret Beijing's moves in the China seas — seizing disputed islets and atolls, asserting ownership of others, trying to restrict free use of the maritime commons — as China's version of a first-mover strategy. To channel Moltke, Beijing has staked claims to parts of the commons while daring fellow Asian powers to reverse its claims at high cost and risk to themselves, and to regional tranquility. Strategic offense, tactical defense…"
Full article here
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Amicalement
Armand

Of course, it appears you are both right, John, and Armand.

What could *possibly* go wrong????

(facepalm)

How did that first move work for Japan in the 40's? Allot more atomic weapons laying around, now.

Here's a link to more info on the incident:

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Thanks for the reality check Mako, the comments on Yahoo make TMP look restrained! ;)

The posts almost make me feel sorry for Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger who, along with Wallmart and US CEOs are, apparently, "to blame" for this.

Cheers,
Bertie

'Yahoo' seems to describe the attitudes of folks over there; you've got comments like this little gem:

"Greedy, military China has become the new Nazi Germany from the 1930's…U.S. must now target all Chinese cities with nuclear weapons cause they're going to initiate World War III within the next 4-years."

I find that doubtful, though to be fair to the person posting that, at least one of China's generals (possibly several have) HAS threatened to nuke Hawaii, and our major American West Coast cities.

Of course, I take that for typical, Chinese bravado and belligerence.

I think some of their leadership and spokespersons went to the same media training school Baghdad Bob attended, back in the day.

Mako11
"I think some of their leadership and spokespersons went to the same media training school Baghdad Bob attended, back in the day."

As opposed to the restrained diplomatic tone taken by Western politicians? ;-P

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Fatman