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"Royal Mail changes for shipping Paint" Topic


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Black Hat Miniatures20 Nov 2013 8:40 a.m. PST

IMPORTANT

Royal Mail rules on sending water-based paints have changed and no more than four containers of up to 150ml each can be sent in one parcel, whether in the UK or internationally.

That means we must break down orders for paints into groups of four and send each group separately in order to comply with the law. The shipping charges have been changed to allow you to select Royal Mail shipping for 4 pots or less. This applies in the Uk or internationally.

In the UK for more than 4 pots please select 5-8 pots UK (which will be sent in two parcels) or UK Courier.

For an order of more than 4 paint pots outside the UK please contact us for a quote, or we will contact you with the additional postal cost.

We would encourage you to order from a retailer in your country or region as that will probably be much cheaper.

This is a complete pain, but we have to comply. I am looking at alternatives and a group of traders are lobbying Royal Mail

thanks

Mike

Black Hat Miniatures

streetline Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 9:03 a.m. PST

I'm curous how GW will ship their mega paint set now….

AndrewGPaul Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 9:15 a.m. PST

By courier, presumably.

Black Hat Miniatures20 Nov 2013 9:21 a.m. PST

I assume that GW use Parcel Force (or another courier)

Mike

streetline Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 9:29 a.m. PST

I forget that Parcel Farce are now a courier service… I try and forget them altogether…

Black Hat Miniatures20 Nov 2013 9:32 a.m. PST

Unlike a lot of the smaller couriers (Myhermes, etc or even big ones like DPD and UkMail) Parcelforce WILL carry paint.

Mike

Joppyuk Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 9:57 a.m. PST

I have noticed, on the last few parcels I've posted, the lady behind the counter wants to know "what is in it?", rather than just the previous "is it worth anything?". She explained this was a new guideline for security purposes – though I can't see anyone sending nefarious materials being truthful! I did think of saying they were sex-aids, but my missus was beside me.

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 10:53 a.m. PST

Companies need to be creative. Create double container bottles. Two part bottles with different color in each end. This means that sets of 8 colors can be made up and sent as 4 containers but with only 75ml of paint in each end.

What is a container? What if paint were packed in baggies, like mustard in a fast food restaurant. Empty paint bottles do not count, do they? So ship the baggies/pouches of paint with empty bottles.

Does the law apply to stains, varnishes, thinners?

steamingdave4720 Nov 2013 11:02 a.m. PST

Another bit of pointless bureaucracy. Where will thus lunacy end? The "bad guys" always find ways round, whilst Joe Public is inconvenienced.

AfricanAl Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 11:05 a.m. PST

You think this is bad. Under these new EU directive requirements the UK Post Office is not allowed to ship a permanent marker pen to the Isle of Skye. (We are connected to the mainland by a bridge, but because it says we are an Island, no can do!)

Huscarle Supporting Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 11:43 a.m. PST

It seems to apply to Water-based paints, wood varnishes and enamels…as they are now restricted goods. all I can say is Bleeped text
link

Not sure what will happen with all those Reaper Bones II pledges containing paints for UK/EU?

Zargon Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 12:05 p.m. PST

We the weak will accept this burden and more.
Was going to say a whole lot more but what breath waisted.
Next time you see a postie not related to your road or box give em a piece of your mind on this if we all do this and continue to maybe just maybe they will get fed up and send a backlash up hill. Worth a try. Remember its not cake lads its the lifeblood of the hobby. Sh*# I'm going to sing the international next 8-)

Angel Barracks Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 12:40 p.m. PST

Next time you see a postie not related to your road or box give em a piece of your mind on this if we all do this and continue to maybe just maybe they will get fed up and send a backlash up hill

Why have a go at the postie, it is not his fault…
You think it is nice to have a go at people for something someone else has done?

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 12:42 p.m. PST

I noticed that they have started to ask what is in the parcel as well. Bloody impertinence!

I told the bloke I didn't know but had been ordered to post it by my wife and if it wasn't posted she would cut my bollox off and then come round and cut his off! He took it……

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 12:47 p.m. PST

Angel Barracks…..my view is that if you work for an organisation then you represent the organisation. If you draw a load of flak then that is part of the job.

Nobody is forcing them to work there. If they don't like it they can always look for a new job!

CptKremmen20 Nov 2013 12:51 p.m. PST

I have a lovely POstie and will continue to be kind to him and give him a big christmas bonus.

freewargamesrules20 Nov 2013 12:53 p.m. PST

You try getting jobs around here like rocking horse deposits. It'd not their fault!

Mako11 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 1:22 p.m. PST

"You think this is bad. Under these new EU directive requirements the UK Post Office is not allowed to ship a permanent marker pen to the Isle of Skye. (We are connected to the mainland by a bridge, but because it says we are an Island, no can do!)".

Gotta love beauracracy, or NOT!

The bureaucrats have to justify their pay in some manner…..

Sadly, we are similarly afflicted on this side of the pond, as well.

Zargon Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 1:41 p.m. PST

@Angel Barracks I think your missing the point! you try further up the line and see where it gets you, I'm not saying be nasty to them but giving a piece of your mind about it is right and fair.(Just like you would at a checkout counter at Tescos' if the price of something is stupidly high) or would you accept all and send a worthless note to the "powers in charge" I think you paint me black here, all I am saying (perhaps too verbose maybe ) is if there is no complaining to the persons who are at the coal face nothing will be done. Personally I have a good relationship with my postie as well as on occasion having given my mind to said official, and still we remain friendly. (Me complaining may be part of her job description and me giving her biscuits during Christmas my way of asking forgiveness,-) now think this type of relationship multiplied by us all-perhaps something can come of it or its the slippery slope of 4 paints minimum then what next a detailed photograph of contents or even a letter of consent that you are allowed to "war game" said product. Cheers all and to the barricades.

Leon Pendraken Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 2:20 p.m. PST

I'm currently awaiting a reply from the Royal Mail's Policy Team, and there will be a formal petition appearing in the next few days. I'll keep everyone updated when it goes live.

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 3:05 p.m. PST

The problem may be further up the line than even the Royal Mail.

It is, at least in part, an issue of safety – the potential for damage of other goods carried along with the paint. Now that the RM is a commercial operation it has to be more careful about its legal position in regard to such matters. I'm sure its insurers will have their word to say about such things as well as the Health & safety bods.

Such is just one of the unforseen consequences of privatisation, there will be more – many, many more.

MajorB20 Nov 2013 3:53 p.m. PST

Apparently this restriction has been in place since at least January 2013:
PDF link

How come nobody has bothered until now?

Leon Pendraken Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 3:55 p.m. PST

That will work both ways as well though, so if we can garner enough support to show RM that they are losing out on £100.00 GBPk's worth of income, they may change the restrictions to something more sensible.

It's not so much the whole restriction itself, it's that one person can send 4 x 150ml, another can only send 4 x 17ml's. And someone else can send 1 litre of flammable whiskey….

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 3:55 p.m. PST

Just been privatised?

MajorB20 Nov 2013 4:01 p.m. PST

Just been privatised?

That's the obvious thought. but surely you don't publish regulations on what can and can't be posted back in January and then studiously ignore them?

It sounds more like a union work-to-rule than anything else …

MajorB20 Nov 2013 4:03 p.m. PST

DHL doesn't seem to have a problem with shipping paint:
link

Angel Barracks Inactive Member20 Nov 2013 4:21 p.m. PST

DHL doesn't seem to have a problem with shipping paint:
link

Thing is though there are things they wont carry that are covered in this:

Dangerous / hazardous goods including but not limited to perfumes, aftershaves, aerosols, flammable substances, dry ice, biological substances, UN classified dangerous goods and any goods specified as such under International Air Transport Association regulations ("IATA"), the Agreement on Dangerous Goods by Road ("ADR") or International Maritime Dangerous Goods ("IMDG") regulations.


Anyone know what things are mentioned in International Air Transport Association regulations ("IATA"), the Agreement on Dangerous Goods by Road ("ADR") or International Maritime Dangerous Goods ("IMDG") regulations ?

Marshal Mark20 Nov 2013 4:54 p.m. PST

Zargon:

I'm not saying be nasty to them but giving a piece of your mind about it is right and fair.(Just like you would at a checkout counter at Tescos' if the price of something is stupidly high)

Would you ? I wouldn't personally. If the price of something at Tesco was too high for me then I wouldn't buy it. I wouldn't give the checkout staff a piece of my mind about something that is nothing to do with them.

if there is no complaining to the persons who are at the coal face nothing will be done.

And you think that complaining about prices to the checkout staff at Tesco will lead to management reducing prices, do you ?

Leon Pendraken Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 5:04 p.m. PST

@ Major Bumsore: They can't seem to make up their mind themselves. The first manager I spoke to said the restriction had been in place for 'years' and that 'we were just lucky not to have been caught yet.' Another guy said it was fairly recent though.

@ Angel Barracks: The Dangerous Goods Office were very helpful, and said that it comes down to what is displayed in each product's Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). In Section 14 of this document, it will show whether the product is safe for transportation or not. Vallejo have theirs displayed on their website, and both Model and Game Color ranges are perfectly safe for transporting. I'll be contacting the other major paint manufacturers for their MSDS's as well.

DHL should have a Dangerous Goods license anyway, so I'm surprised there are so many restrictions at their end.

Leon Pendraken Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 9:04 p.m. PST

Petition now live on Change.org, please add your support and spread the word to everyone as well. Hopefully we can get enough people involved to get RM to make some changes to their restrictions.

link

Zephyr120 Nov 2013 9:18 p.m. PST

I can see this for aerosol cans, but small bottles of water-based? Crazy. I guess the next step to get around this is 'paint kits' of empty bottles and packets of paint powder ("just add water".) Ultimately there will be Prohibition-scale paint smuggling operations…. ;-)

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP21 Nov 2013 5:08 a.m. PST

Paint-easies…?

jedburgh21 Nov 2013 7:39 a.m. PST

So Andrea paint sets (six bottles) will be restricted to those within walking distance of a supplier.

Zargon Inactive Member21 Nov 2013 10:48 a.m. PST

Marshal Mark , you are wonderfully mild mannered about it all, my hat to you. I on the other hand like to vent (been told it helps heart wise, time will tell ;-) I feel if enough people call the worm a worm it will be hooked for fishing. Things have progressed here on TMP regards this totally unreasonable decree ( see Leon Pendraken post) I have these paints not so far away from me so all this does not affect me personally, but it is all you my friends they buyers and sellers of a totally innocuous product that are affected and I would be as loud on your behalf as on my own. Fair is fair for all. And I do believe enough hot air will affect a change even for a can of peas that need to be 49p instead of 99p mind you if we all don't buy the peas they may drop the price 10p. 8-D . Enough of it all gents, I am chastised ;-)

Personal logo richarDISNEY Supporting Member of TMP21 Nov 2013 12:14 p.m. PST

Crazy…
beer

Antenocitis CSR Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Nov 2013 3:59 a.m. PST

tweeted the link out.. hopefully should help get across the required number of signatures.

/Dee

Goose666 Inactive Member22 Nov 2013 4:05 a.m. PST

RM seem to be going nuts.
I hope the petition works.

myrm1122 Nov 2013 6:15 a.m. PST

Leon, DHL do do Dangerous Goods but those regulations cover a HUGE variety of things and most common couriers have big chunks of the Dangerous Goods list they will not ship and those exclusions don;t always match from courier to courier…I have had to move all sorts of things for work and most of the big name couriers will not touch Category A infectious material for example but most will carry Category B even if the possible infection in there is the same thing…yet most will carry a fair amount of flammables under Dangerous Goods regs without batting an eyelid.

Like many things where the line is drawn can seem arbitary if you line things up because the lines are designed to be A) easily enforced and B) to cover most situations and c)[the annoying one] designed to slap the exceptions into the higher risk category. They are not designed to be friendly to the user.

That said the Royal Mail paint restriction is not going to be Dangerous Goods related. It could be CAA related due to liquids on planes as they shift a lot more on planes these days. THe other option is liability related – all the text on paints rattles on about leakage and traceability of the original sender (note you have to put your name and addres on there so they can say it was your poor packing)…I suspect they have had a paint parcel leak and wreck something expensive and this is the upshot….its easy for them to justify, its easy for them to deal with, it looks good internally to the profit counters and they really do not have to care much if the couriers will do it.

I favour the 'holy crap that cost us' option as an explanation.

Zephyr122 Nov 2013 3:22 p.m. PST

the lady behind the counter wants to know "what is in it?"

"Acrylic paint. I'm shipping Plutonium Green, Cobalt Bomb Blue, Radioactive Red, and Radium Yellow…."

;-)

MajorB22 Nov 2013 3:23 p.m. PST

It could be CAA related due to liquids on planes as they shift a lot more on planes these days.

The stuff about liquids on planes only relates to CABIN baggage not HOLD baggage. You can't build a bomb with stuff that's down in the hold …

CAG 19 Inactive Member04 Dec 2013 1:42 p.m. PST

If you haven't signed the petition to get it lifted yet

link

Old Guy Inactive Member17 Feb 2014 10:49 a.m. PST

The madness continues, as a Subpostmaster I have now been told that I have not to ask customers what is inside their Home Shopping Returns.

So Customer 1 is quizzed about his box, while Customer 2's box is accepted and popped into the bag.

So what is the bleeding point.

Losing the Will Inactive Member17 Feb 2014 11:13 a.m. PST

I suppose the theory is that, as a 'return', it will already have been asked about during it's first trip through the postal system?

1815Guy Inactive Member28 Feb 2014 3:40 a.m. PST

ive just heard that acrylics and pigments are exsecluded from the limits. its oil based paints – flammables – that need special handling, packaging and an iso label.

Losing the Will Inactive Member28 Feb 2014 6:07 a.m. PST

It's the limit on volume/numbers of pots that's causing worry not that the paints need ISO stickers etc…according to the Royal Mail Website section on 'restricted items'.

" Water-based paints, wood varnishes and enamels

The items must be securely closed and placed in a leak-proof liner, such as a sealed polythene bag, so that any inadvertent leakage is contained within the outer packaging. Surround with absorbent material such as newspaper and sufficient cushioning material to protect each item from damage. Volume per item should not exceed 150ml. No more than four items can be sent in any one package. The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging."

Marc the plastics fan Inactive Member28 Feb 2014 10:18 a.m. PST

Are they water based paints? I thought acrylic paints were a form of PVA based based. Water soluble ye, but teh medium is not water

Losing the Will Inactive Member28 Feb 2014 10:39 a.m. PST

Water serves as the carrier for the Acrylic Polymer with most acrylics…however some like the Tamiya ones and (I think) the Vallejo Metallics use a different carrier that is flammable so covered by other restrictions in the mail.

Paint Pig Inactive Member01 Mar 2014 9:08 a.m. PST

It was primarily to do with damage caused by contents leakage, other factors have been dragged into play and muddied the waters. Smart shippers always put the paints inside a reasonably tough plastic bag that restricts damage to the contents of the bag. It is unfortunate that a goodly number of senders (beyond gaming/hobby companies) aren't so smart or prudent and have stuffed things up for buyer and seller alike. I have gotten complaints from buyers because I tape the lids, screw and flip top, tightly before putting inside a plastic bag when I have mailed paints. I wonder sometimes if they would have preferred the alternative and had a top come loose. Hopefully a sensible compromise can be reached.

regards
dave

1815Guy Inactive Member04 Mar 2014 3:47 a.m. PST

Bleeped text.

grambo Supporting Member of TMP04 Mar 2014 4:46 a.m. PST

As a painter that spends around 25 hours per week on commission work I get through a lot of paint and supplies! This new regulation has been a pain but what can you do? I tend to order 10 or 12 pots at a time (Vallejo)and now have to use 'hermes' as an alternative courier and its expensive, last lot was £5.75 GBP for next day delivery. Good thing was that I could track the van right to the door and the time slot was almost dead on, no complaints about the service. But it's frustrating only being able to order 4 pots via RM as the postage cost was much cheaper. My supplier does indeed seal all paint pots in plastic bags and tape the lids, which I see as sensible if time consuming for the supplier. It's a pain all round I guess.

I'll just mention that since I discovered the 'wet palette' method via a lardy blog I'm saving a lot of money on acrylic paint drying up too fast so maybe it's swings and roundabouts?

Lee.

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