"German Non-Landsknecht infantry: Were they used?" Topic

Based on the answers of previous topics here at tmp, I got that, besides the landsknechts and city militia, the German armies (imperial and state armies) could also recruit a countryside/feudal levy of men, to be equipped by the state armouries (most I got from here: TMP link ).

However, I'd like to know, before the decline of the landsknechts in the late part of the century, were those levies ever called up to fight any battles (for the imperial army or individual state forces) of the 1490s-1570s period? And If so, would they be organized in "Fahnleins" like the Landsknecht?

Well in many areas such levies had lapsed and were at best available on paper if at all. You were most likely to find them in border areas such as Styria or Tirol which were more exposed and thus had a reason to mantain and develop the levy system. In other areas peasant trained in the use of arms were likely to be view more as a threat by many but not all rulers.

Such levies formed the army with which Ditmarschen resisted several invasions, most famously in the battle of Hemmingstedt in 1500.

Tirol also developed an regulated levy system which was given further form and permanence by Maximilian in the 1511 "Landlibell" and IIRC Tirol levies saw some use in the fighting with the Venetians during Maximilians involvement in the Italian Wars though these troops never went long distances outside the borders of Tirol.

Thank you, Daniel! Would the levy companies be like the landsknecht "Fahnlein", with pike and shot?
Also, would they wear, beneath their armor, the peasant tunic or the burger/middle classes clothes?

Another question: Would the states not aligned with the Emperor, such as the Schmalkaldic League army or the Brandenburg-Kulmbach forces of the 2nd Margrave War use the feudal levies to compose their infantry, or would all their infantry be landsknechts?

>Dithmarschen

There were a couple of battles in that era, mainly between 1490 and 1520, in which the "free" areas were brought under control (or not, in the case of Dithmarschen). These were "free" usually because they were too poor to sustain a proper feudal system before, and life there was harsh to the point of making them fight rather then pay tribute. The Black Guard, descendant of the first Landsknecht unit raised by Maximilian, was an indipendent unit that haunted the area for a decade until their defeat and subsequent reorganisation after Hemmingstedt.

These "free" levies would show up in local conflicts and battles and would be levied as city or area militia and armed like Landsknechts, eg. pike, handguns and the occasional armoured noble. A good example is the battle of Jemgum 1533.

>most famously in the battle of Hemmingstedt in 1500.

The book "Die Schlacht bei Hemmingstedt" by Walter Lammers, 1953, conains a world of information on the composition of the dukal army – including the history of its Landsknechts component with the surviving muster roll. It seems that the feudal levy was largely mounted, while the infantry were hired mercenaries from different sources. I do not think there is a translation, but if your German is good enough, this one is a must have for the "free" Landsknechts of that era.
The battle at the Hartwerder Landwehr, where the remnants of the Rustringer in Butjadingen were crushed in 1514 contains an infantry contingent in the dukal army, though I have yet to dig out specific informations. in 1517 there was a major army fighting the Wurster for the Bishop of Bremen, again without specific info on its components – but if I would be forced to guess I would assume local companies hired in the Landsknecht fashion, mixed with the odd free Landsknecht unit. Their opponents would be free peasant levies (whoever lived nearby and could bear arms).

I think in the era you ask for feudal infantry would be non-existent in its classical form, except in border regions like Steir and Tirol, Frisia or the Baltics. It was simply too easy to use the Landsknecht template to raise mercenaries.

In the conficts the Schützengilden, community organisations training with the gun (or early crossbows) were available for the defense of cities and perhaps nearby, being citizens they would not venture too far out, though, and I do not have examples memorized. These contingents would be armed with handguns.

Puster,
Do you know if there is a diffrence between the diffrent editions of Lammers book? My search has turned up editions from 1983 and 1991 in addition to the original 1953 edition.

As far as I know the 53 edition only comes with one map, which made me buy the 83 edition. The book claims it is a reworked edition, but fails to mention the details.
I assume that roll list was part of the 53 book, and the small map was printed inline (or not at all).

The 91 edition is, again as far as I know and owning just the 2nd, just a reprint of the second without changes – because the 2nd edition sold out. As Lammers died in 90 it was perhaps commemorative. Boyens pusblishes a lot of regional arcana.

I got my exemplar used at ZVAB:
link

Thank you for that overview Puster, I've learned the hard way that not all editions are of equal quality or even content. (Maps often suffering reductions in size or quality to save money for example.)

Will add Lammers to the long list of books to buy, Hemmingstedt is actually only of secondary interest to me but I'm hoping it can provide the odd bit of information about the Black Guard that can help me get a grip on it's service in Sweden.

Thank you very much, puster!

Daniel, if you look for the Swedish campaign of the Black guard the book will not help you much. There is a part on the history of the Black Guard with just one paragraph on their engagement by King Johan, mainly saying that they were used in 1497 against rebels and Stan Sture and fought at Rotebro. They were back in Frisia the next year.

He gives two sources, one being the Saxonia and another were someone reported just their embarkment. I can look these up for you.

The book is a fine resource on the internas of a Landsknecht regiment and (for 1500) on the collection of a dukal army in Germany, using three different groups of Lansknechts and the feudal system for the knights and cavalry. If your main interest is for the campaign in Sweden, however, the book will not bring you much.

Well, my main hope is that the muster roll and the text may help me verify names mentioned in connection with events in 1497. One problem with Swedish sources is that we lost most of them in 1697 so a lot of research relies on actual or 'claim' copies or transcriptions of the now lost manuscripts.

But any book that sheds light on the early landsknechts is worth adding to my collection not to mention that it is always handy to have actual German research when arguing with some parts of the Landsknecht reenactment community

Guys, I'm sorry for reviving this topic, but I have a question whose answer I can't seem to find anywhere. Were the german feudal infantry levies employed by the Imperial Armies of Maximilian and Charles V during the Italian Wars? It has been kinda hard to find something, mostly because the few OOBs I've found for the battles of the italian wars use "Landsknecht" as a general term for the german infantry part of the Imperial Armies…

Any clues on the italian wars, guys?

DS, that's a really interesting question. I get the sense that they might not, the comparative inexpense being offset by Landsknecht and other troops proven values.

Needs researching.

From the limited OB information I've seen over the years, No fuedal levies in Italy. But, there were Italian troops used by the Imperialists.

Thank you, RNSulentic! Do you know a good place to find OOBs for the Italian Wars?