"Tank vs Tank wargame rules" Topic

Hi,
I'm searching for a rule set to play INTERESTING tank vs tank combat with a handfull of tanks on each side.

Cheers
WCT

What have you tried already, just so we can rule out contenders.

I've always loved BGWWII. loved the detail. Always loved the armored play in it

There was a local guy who was writing rules for a tank vs tank RPG like game. You rolled up your crew and had to keep them alive through Gmed scenarios. I never played it but it looked cool. It's of course impossible to get a copy of the game because the guy refuses to use a computer to write them down.

That idea reminds me of the avalon hill game "patton's best". my
favorite tank game Tobruk in miniature

Have you considered Panzer Miniatures?

strikenet-games.com/Panzer.html

These are excellent for tank vs tank combat. More involved than most systems but our group feels they are worth the time to learn. We've enjoyed countless games with these rules.

How much detail do you want?

Tally Ho!

If you like 1-to-1 unit scales (one tank model = one tank), you want to play with platoon-sized units (3 to 5 tanks) up to perhaps a reinforced company per side (10 to 20 tanks, but not more), and you enjoy seeing and experiencing details about the tanks in your games, while you also hope to get some measure of playability from your games …

I recommend PanzerWar. These rules are written by one of the TMP members, Mobius. He has worked on these rules for decades now. His research is extremely deep and accurate, providing the armored protection levels not only of each sub-model of dozens upon dozens of tanks, but also the protection levels of each facet or facing of those tanks (Not just frontal armor, but turret front vs. gun mantlet vs. glacis plate vs. lower front hull, etc.).

I played his rules for several years. They really provide a delicious level of detail for the tank enthusiast. You get to see, in your battles, the differences between a Pz IIIj compared to a Pz IIIm, or a T-34m1941 compared to a T-34m1942, or an M4A1 early production compared to an M4A1 mid-production compared to an M4A3.

And … the rules are well written and well constructed for playability, so long as you don't try to run more than a platoon per player while you are learning them, or more than about a company once you know them well.

His research is so complete that these rules became the basis of a computer tank wargame from a major software studio.

And … here's the kicker … he lets you have these wonderful rules for FREE! No kidding! What a guy! He used to publish and sell them in the late 1970s and 1980s, but after so many addendums, updates and upgrades he now just provides the complete current ruleset as a free download at his website.

So go get 'em, and give 'em a read-through. If nothing else they are a well-researched historical resource on WW2 armor.

panzer-war.com

Oh, and he also has a cold-war/moderns version too.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Advanced Tobruk?

link

Advanced Squad Leader. You would have to decide how to miniaturize it but there is nothing more interesting (and nitty gritty) then that.

Chain of Command, though an excellent infantry game, has rules for a TC to order each member of the crew to take actions and each individual in the tank could be injured.

There's Tactical Commander, Tractics/Battalions in Crisis, Tobruk (as someone mentioned), ASL in miniature, and i'm sure many others.

I don't have a specific suggestion, but wondering if the OP was after a mini-friendly set of rules or a cardboard-tile kind of game?

I have played the old Yaquinto "88" and "Armor" before, and they were the cardboard-tile style, but easily workable for just tanks/minis. Finding the rules now, that's another question.

The Little Prince and I use a set of home-made rules, lots of fun but very, very simplistic (he is, after all, 9)

I'll second Panzer War. I've used them since the first edition came out in the early 1980's. They are now available free and updated quite a bit. For mainly armour engagements, they are very good.

I havent tried any rules yet, but I would like lot of details, no problems with notes or hexes. I actually would like to play Yom Kippur War or Six Day War.

Most cardboard rules can be translated to miniatures – just substitute whatever measurement you want for each hex or movement/range, etc. A lot of people have done that with ASL and we use MBT/IDF for miniatures gaming on a sand table.

I was thinking panzer war also but you guys beet me to it :-)

the latest version of 88 and Armor rules are now available from StrikeNet games at

link

(just noticed that wargamingmaine listed these earlier)

GMT has also recently released a boardgame series based on the game. If the poster is looking for Modern versions of these games then MBT/IDF from Avalon Hill are good. They can usually be found on Ebay for a decent price.

Anyone still play:
Fast Rules?
Tractics?
Tank Charts?

Tractics.

A lot of TMP folks seem to like BattleTech for tank on tank action. I don't think it would be fun, but YMMV. There is a WWII for BattleTech rules supplement released as a PDF that can still be found in the interwebs.

"Have you considered Panzer Miniatures?

strikenet-games.com/Panzer.html"

cool

do they plan to do that for modern too??? (hope so!!!)

Anyone remember Micro Tank Warfare by Leicester Micro Models.

Oh yes, I do! That was the one with a PzIV on the front and graphs for AP penetration. Infantry rules were one page and it took a decade for them to inflict any sort of meaningful damage on each other. Loved them and played with the early Skytrex models, with sharp ended pins for barrels. Ah nostalgia, we had a Bishop that we thought was a KV2 and totally lopsided forces.

I thougt at something like a camvas eagle style game with hexes and charts

Thre is Manbeouver Group:-

We use it for tank vs tank (even SI-FI ones in some cases). You do have to "drive" and move the turret. Has rules for FLIR and Battle management. Simple rules but complex game. You are not clear how much detail you want. If you want a company of tanks fighting in complex terrain with no infantry this may do the job. It depends very much what you want. If you want detail of driver, gunnet radio man and loader it is not that detailed. You will need to be typically in formation, learn to skirmish, find alternate positions and generally be aware of actual tank tactics. The differences between hull down and turret down, how to use smoke dischargers. Weather you have radios or not will be an issue if playing WWII.

Back in the days of microarmor, I used to play Tank Charts back in the 1981.

I designed a tank vs tank system in 1984 called Fire Ogon Freur (FOF).

There is a free online ruleset called "hell on wheels", very detailed. Some kind of pattons best but with a tank platoon instead of a tank, wherethe umpire control the enemy force ( so is a player versus a umpire). Its for miniatures, and i think that it should be easy to change it into a player versus player issue.
As long as i remember it was very detailed with the isue of orders to crewmen

Tank Charts free download:
link

Wolfhag