Broglie | 19 Oct 2013 5:54 a.m. PST |
I have updated the Wargamorium Blog to include last night's attempt at re-fighting the battle of Fontenoy using Maurice rules. We did not have enough time to complete the game so the action continues next week when a ghastly slaughter is anticipated. link Regards |
Captain dEwell | 19 Oct 2013 6:20 a.m. PST |
Excellent. Beautiful painted figures and tremendous game table. Well done. Can you confirm that you have included a hill/ridge around Fontenoy, please? I ask because I am determined to game a battle from Charles Stewart Grant's Scenarios for Wargames (WSGP, 1981), which I understand is based on Fontenoy but does not include the hill. Do you think the battle/scenario plays better with the hill? Many thanks. |
PraetorianHistorian | 19 Oct 2013 6:27 a.m. PST |
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Broglie | 19 Oct 2013 7:25 a.m. PST |
Many thanks to you both for your kind words. Captain DEwell – We are using the layout as set out in the Maurice rules by Sam Mustafa and it specifies that there is a hill in front of Fontenoy so we have that represented on the table. The Allied column will have to traverse the hill to get at the French defences. I have say that I did question this when we were setting up the game but it has been so long since I read about the battle that I just accepted the scenario as written. In Charles Grant's book dedicated to the Battle of Fontenoy he does not include such a hill in the suggested wargame terrain but there is a contemporary French map in that book – and indeed in another book Great Military Battles – which depicts raised ground behind the allies rather than a hill in front of Fontenoy and the advancing allied column. Perhaps the hill in question might have been no more than undulating ground? Interesting point. |
Captain dEwell | 19 Oct 2013 8:28 a.m. PST |
Broglie, Thank you for your reply. I think that initially when I game the scenario I will omit the hill (as long as the others agree) and, perhaps, add it in a second game should we decide to make the approaches tougher. Kind regards, D'Ewell |
Broglie | 19 Oct 2013 9:16 a.m. PST |
Captain D'Ewell Good solution. Anyway I think the hill should do no more than protect from long range artillery fire i.e. interrupt the line of fire, rather than an obstacle which would disrupt the allied advance. |
Augie the Doggie | 19 Oct 2013 10:18 a.m. PST |
Here is a map:
If you can find Mike Kirby's site, he has pictures of the battlefield posted. Here is a link to a description of the field today: link |
Augie the Doggie | 19 Oct 2013 10:27 a.m. PST |
Ok, I found the pictures of the battlefield: link The rise looks to be gentle, but seems to have enough rise to block line of sight a little bit looking from the British starting position towards the position where the French Guards deployed. |
Captain dEwell | 19 Oct 2013 11:09 a.m. PST |
Augie, thanks for posting the map and photographs. The hill or rise is barely discernible to my eye. Grant's Positional Defence, Chapter 4 in his Scenarios for Wargames, is exactly that battle plan but without the hill/rise. Interesting. Many thanks. |
Joes Shop | 20 Oct 2013 6:09 a.m. PST |
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kerpob | 23 Oct 2013 2:22 p.m. PST |
Played this myself a week ago. We had a British victory due to my foolish French charge as they approached. a charge that failed and was subsequently shot to bits by the British. The Dutch had less luck, but the British had time to rally and beat of the French cavalry to seal victory. Excellent rules – this is my 3rd outing with them. Probably try Longstreet in a week or so. |
Broglie | 03 Nov 2013 3:21 p.m. PST |
I have updated the Wargamorium Blog to include the rather disappointing end of the Fontenoy game. This was our second attempt at the Maurice Rules and although they contain some novel features we just found that they did not work for us. thewargamorium.wordpress.com |
Captain dEwell | 05 Nov 2013 9:17 a.m. PST |
Very, very enjoyable. Many thanks. I also think that you ought to be applauded on your photographs – they are exceptionally good. I like everything about your blogsite and it has now inspired me to game Fontenoy, ASAP. |
Fireymonkeyboy | 16 Nov 2013 8:20 a.m. PST |
It's a lovely looking game, but I have to admit, I'm surprised by both your outcome and reaction to the rules. It seems like an extremely atypical outcome in my experience of the game. When you closed to musket range, were both sides shooting? Did you modify shooting and combat with cards? I can't recall ever playing a game of Maurice with such a one-sided outcome, and I'm curious about what might have caused it. FMB |
Fireymonkeyboy | 16 Nov 2013 8:22 a.m. PST |
Just had another read – as I understand it, you attacked head on into a defensive line entrenched behind a wall, correct? Why do you find it surprising that the attackers were thrown back? FMB |
Captain dEwell | 16 Nov 2013 9:31 a.m. PST |
If you scroll down the link page you will see the map from the scenario book from which I referred. link See, no hills. I am inspired to game Fontenoy, both ways. Thanks again. |
Broglie | 18 Nov 2013 1:58 p.m. PST |
Thanks Firemonkeyboy You have posted these same questions on the Wargamorium blog and we have answered them there. I think our main disappointment was with the bombardment rules. The Allies bombarded the French defence with three batteries, which represents 75 guns,for about 12 moves and all they did was to cause one disruption point on one French battery behind a gabion. When the allied infantry reached the French defenders they were indeed thrown back. We used the cards to their full advantage so they were not the problem. Captain Dewell Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately your link did not open for me. Regards |
Captain dEwell | 18 Nov 2013 4:16 p.m. PST |
Sorry Broglie, that link appears down to me as well. It was linked to the Edinburgh Wargamer site. With much respect to them, here is the map.
Very similar I think you will agree. D'Ewell |
Flick40 | 05 Dec 2013 6:47 p.m. PST |
Not to hi-jack your thread but here's a link showing our game of Fontenoy using Age of Reason. We didn't care for Maurice either though as you said there were some interesting ideas. The figures are based Konig Krieg style and we used the advanced method to rate the troops for AoR. We didn't get to a conclusion either but not due to the rules but a family emergency. The game was fun and played fairly historical. Enjoy. link Joe |
Broglie | 07 Dec 2013 3:50 a.m. PST |
Thanks Joe for that. I like the look of your game both in your photographs and on the You Tube link as well. I will copy this to the other player as well. We got some great games using Koenig Krieg years ago We used the version for the War of the Spanish Succession which we adapted further because our games were rather large. Great days. I have actually visited Fontenoy but there is very little left to see. Many thanks for posting |
trailape | 08 Dec 2013 3:39 a.m. PST |
Hi Guys The Battle of Fontenoy should see the French deployed on high ground. The Allies should be attacking uphill. The British actually advanced UP a slope towards the French, (though not very steep). The French defenders should IMHO get some defensive advantage (Maurice did have a good eye for the ground after all). 'MAURICE' is an excellent set of rules for this particular battle because it's so hard to coordinate your attacks. If as the Allied player you can easily coordinate the attacks by the British and the Dutch / Allies then it's not really the battle of Fontenoy. The Lethal Volleys and Steady Lads are ideal national characteristics for the British (and them alone) and I'd give the Swiss and Scot regiments La Bayonet. I'd alter the scenario in the rules by incorporating the hill into the French deployment area OR making ALL of the French deployment area higher ground than the allies deployment area. I'd also not class the French Guarde as 'Elite' as on the day they really put in a poor showing, just dying en mass when blown away by a 'Lethal Volley' when the Brits replied the the French Guards rather parhetic attempt. I've not had a game of 'MAURICE' in about 4 months but I'm pretty sure firing in 'MAURICE' isn't simultaneous. If you get the first shot in you should get an advantage from that (unless you shoot like the French Guard at Fontenoy)! I've got a few AARs using MAURICE here: link I think they are excellent rules for the period in question. That is not to say there aren't other excellent rule stes. Might and a Reason (also by Sam Mustafa) are also great rules and I'm sure Black Powder would give a good game (so I hear). Cheers |
Broglie | 08 Dec 2013 4:18 a.m. PST |
Hello Trailape Many thanks for posting on this. I do agree with the points you have raised and will study your truly impressive blog. Thanks again Regards |
trailape | 09 Dec 2013 6:00 p.m. PST |
Hi I've played the Kolin scenario but not Fontenoy. I must have a go at it myself as I think it would make for an interesting game and a hard nut of the British and their allies to crack. Quite the challenge. Cheers Scott |