"Fantasy scenarios & historical equivalents for armies" Topic
8 Posts
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Zelekendel | 14 Oct 2013 6:18 p.m. PST |
The HC Fantasy Yahoo group seems inactive, so thought I'd crosspost here too. Do you happen to know of a good source for fantasy scenarios from different games? I'd assume at least LOTR would have many of the battles detailed and with scenarios – at least in GW's own LOTR SBG (which can be used to adapt for HC even though it's a skirmish game). What about WH fantasy though? There are scenarios in old White Dwarfs, and some of the bigger "battle reports" serve as fine "historical" scenarios I'm sure. If only an archive of them could be found
Failing that, or in addition, how about we try to find a historical equivalent for a given Fantasy army (in different periods) so we could research good historical scenarios and adapt them for Fantasy? Scenarios are the lifeblood of Hail Caesar in any form, after all! Let me try and start: Army Ancient Medieval Black Powder Empire: N/A HRE / Teuton Prussia / England High Elves Hellenic / Carthag. England/Byzantine N/A Dark Elves Persian "Italian"/ Ottoman Wood Elves Celts / Parthian England Native American Dwarfs Roman Anglo-Saxon French / Russian Bretonnia Maced. / Sarmatian French Greenskins Huns / Goths / Carth. Mongol / Viking Native American Lizardmen Roman/ Carth / Indian Byzantine / Indian "Ratmen" Celt / "Barbarian" Chinese/ Poland / Lithuanian/Russian African Chaos Warriors Sparta Viking / Norse Beastmen "Barbarian" Vampires Roman Byzanthine Tomb "Lords" Egypt, Persian Byz Ogres "Barbarian" Turk? Ottoman It'd be better to actually have a big table with variosu prolific ancient / medieval armies and cross off all Fantasy armies that are good for representing them as you can see, many of the Fantasy armies can fit the same historical army. But that's a start.
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skinkmasterreturns | 15 Oct 2013 12:01 p.m. PST |
I always thought the Orc/historical crossover was associated w/ Ancient German.High Elves HYW English,Brettonia HYW French,WE as Medieval Welsh,DE as Med Irish.Of course,those are not definitive,but associations that I've seen before. |
Zelekendel | 15 Oct 2013 1:32 p.m. PST |
Yeah, Greenskins is a large range of potential armies – by Mongols I'd mean mostly a mounted greenskin army – you know, Wolf Riders as the archer cavalry and boar boyz as the heavier cavalry. Infantry in support. There is an actual Mongol Wolf Archer hero in the Warhammer Armies book. Also, in the Warhamme World, the Hobgoblin Khanate basically is the Mongolian Empire. Some of the choices are stylistic as well as tactical / army composition. You said it yourself with Chaos / Sparta – that's about style, however I was thinking more in line with Chaos Warriors being badasses, very disciplined, the greatest individual warriors, yadda yadda. So that's why Greenskins represent Native Americans stylistically (of course, Lizardmen too). The Marauder Hordes would be more like the Vikings I suppose, although of course in reality they were well organized too. But yeah, the list isn't perfect, but the point isn't to try and review my list and try to find errors in it, the list was just to kick the ball rolling. Like I said in the end, for each historical army, many fantasy races are a good match and it'd be better to list by prolific (scenario-wise) historical army and see which all fantasy armies fit it, and not the other way round. It gives us more options when we look at a certain historical scenario and want to go about converting it. OF course, what I said about style only goes so far – the main point is that all the unit types /army compositions the historical army wielded in famous battles are doable with the fantasy army in question. Hence Chaos – elite infantry with accompanying "rabble", little in the way of missiles are definitely possible
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Huscarle | 16 Oct 2013 9:15 a.m. PST |
Looking at LoTR I generally see the following match-ups:- Gondor – Byzantine Dol Amroth – Medieval French Knights Rohan – Anglo-Saxon/Dane/Goth Dunland – Celts / German tribes Harad / Mordor – Ottoman Turks Dwarves – Viking / Rus Hobbits – English |
sauron808 | 25 Oct 2013 1:45 p.m. PST |
Giveing my two cents as I feel if I was looking at LoTR I generally see the following match-ups:- Gondor – Byzantine- Late or commenian as they are a past power in recession. Dol Amroth – Crusaders- late due to armor and vigor. Rohan – Anglo-Saxon/Dane/Goth- agree- lombard/ carolingian Dunland – Celts / German tribes- agree- possibly spainish Harad- arab conquest / saracen lists/ sassinids/carthage easterlings- khazar/avar/ancient britan/celts/ pontic armies Mordor – orcs- ancient britans/celts/ Dwarves – Viking / Rus/ Franks/ Saxons/ Spainish Hobbits – baleric slingers/ skirmishers only. Wood elves – Welsh longbowman/ early samurai Sindar- 100 YW english w/armor/ Byzantine/ seleucid High elves- Nikephorian byzantine/ heraclian byzantine/tang chinese/ samurai army. WH Armies IMHO- Empire- Renaissance germany (currently) Empire- Sigmar- carolingan/ ottonian army/ late roman (less missle) Bretonia- Feudal France High Elves- Pontic/ 100 YW english/Crusader Wood Elves- welsh/100 YW english Dwarves- Vikings/ Franks/ Saxons Orcs- Celts/Dacians/ Germans Chaos- Vikings/Scottish/ Russ Lizard- burmese/ spainish Vampires- Carthage Mummys- egypt/ assyrian
I think Chaos army would break down as follows: Elite Heavy infantry say 20% – plate/chainmail w/or with out 2h weapons. Limited or no missile weapons. Elite Heavy Cavalry say 20-40% Light Cavalry no more then 10% Rabble 30-50% Monster/magician/etc 10% what are some of your thoughts? The main problem I find with the chao's army if there is no time constraints/ fixed objectives I would play my byzantine/sassanid/ late roman army and defend and nickle and dime this force as I let my skirmishers/ missile troops go to work. The terror these troops generate would have to be worked into the rules as Chao's troops move slow w/all that heavy armor so I would just keep on emptying my troops quivers till they break. Target the soft troops and big monster and delay the melee as long as possible. Again this is my opinion. Scenario's for gaming. Beast slayer- chaos army besieges Praag Rescuing armies try to lift the siege- Kislev – Polish Renaissance / Pancerni cavalry also dwarven infantry berserkers arrive on air blimp and drop into flaming city and blimp bombs chaos troops from afar. Ratman attack monastery - Undead/Skaven/Bretonnian ( wood elves) Empire civil war- mercenaries brought in from all sides Kislev vs Bretonnian lancers Kislev light horse vs. Bretonnian longbowman No Cannons or war machines – limited gun powder weapons. |
Zelekendel | 26 Oct 2013 5:29 p.m. PST |
Thank you for a well thought and informed contribution. I'm sure that in Hail Caesar or similar you couldn't just keep on skirmishing forever, there's always objectives and the melee cannot be delayed forever in a properly designed battle. I was just wondering where all the Warhammer Historical battles are? The background of Warhammer is full of famous battles, surely there are scenarios? Well, the new supplement for WHFB, Triumph & Treachery has three, so that's a start! |
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