"Russian Jaegers 1806-1807" Topic

I am slowly building a Prussian-Russian force for 1806-1807 campaigns. I will be using general de brigade rules and I base my men 1 to 10 in three men deep bases. Just finished the first battalion of 4th jaegers at 15 men per company( I bases all Russians five wide 3 deep). I know each Jaeger regiment had 3 battalions. How do I represent the skirmishing role that the jaegers were used as. I was thinking about doing two battalions in line and one in skirmish or open order. I know at the battle of Hoff the jaegers were deployed in open order as the rearguard. Any suggestions I am open to and help more experienced general de brigade players.

thanks
Michael.

It is my understanding that typically the third rank was ployed out in loose order.
So If I was mounting my troops in three rank as you describe(and I would like to see how that is working) I would mount them either 2 rank with the third mounted in skirmish order or have the third rank be able to be removed from the main base to be used as skirmisher ( Use of magnetic base concept).
There will be others with much more extensive knowledge of the Russian organization/tactics and of the earlier period than I that will hopefully chime in.
Greg

Thanks that seems like a good idea. If you in the gallery for Adler Prussians 1806 you can see the basing style. I will post a pic of my jaegers soon.

I just do a unit in open order usually I have one open order unit for every 4 Light units or if feeling mean I cut a template from OH film and pop the close order bases on it to represent skirmish frontage. I have several bases with a few skirmish pose figures on it to pop on as well to give the illusion Ive painted more than I have.
Russian Jaegers were a mixed bag most of them not really capable of skirmishing much as only some of the Rgts got any real skirmishing training.
L

Here are my Russians Jaegers which show the first battalion 3rd Jaegers. My painting style is made so they look better from far a way rather than in these close ups. Well that is at least what I tell myself haha. Back to the question any general de brgiade players make extra skirmish bases for jaegers or just use them in open order?

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These are my first french 1st battalion 108th Ligne from Friants Division. 81 figures plus skirmishers make painting prussians and russians so much more fun.

Michael

Like many GdB players, I made extra 'Skirmisher' stands (pairs), in addition to the formed units of Jagers. Note that the 2nd battalions were typically 'Depot' battalions, and seldom took the field.

You might try visiting the General de Brigade Forum directly for more responses: generaldebrigade.fr.yuku.com

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My personal favorite the battalion commander looking down the line.

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A little update on my Russian Jaegers.

Michael

Wow! Beautiful miniatures! Thank you all so much for posting the photos!
Greystreak, the manufacturer should pay you to do his advertising samples.
One thing you can add next time you do Russian jäger : recent microscopic examination of some museum samples and a couple of archive finds indicate that Russian jäger had a habit/fashion of staining the woodwork on their rifles and muskets black (like all their other woodwork.) It was likely not always done, but makes a nice variation for the senior regiments.

Some comments ….

"Note that the 2nd battalions were typically 'Depot' battalions, and seldom took the field"
Prior to 1810, the 3 battalions would typically take the field together.
The arrangement described applies after October 1810. Actually, as it turned out in 1812, the 2nd battlaions were (i) used to fill up the 1st and 3rd battlaions, (ii) the grenadier companies from the 6 second battalions in each division were combined into two 3-company combined grenadier battalions which took the field with the division and (iii) the remaining 3 "center" companies of the second battalions were used in various roles, typcally on the flanks of the main army. This did not apply to the army of the Danube, the troops in Georgia and the Caucasus, nor the Guards.
Depot recruits in 1811-1812 were formed into 4th battalions, some serving in second-line roles and some being used as replacements (usually not in their intended regiments).
By 1813, a new series of 2nd battlaions were being raised. The success in raising these, and their use either as replacements for their own regiment or otherwise or taking the field "as is" varied considerably.

"It is my understanding that typically the third rank was ployed out in loose order. "
Well, yes and no, but mosly "no" I think.
First, Russian jäger were typically used as skirmishers, in open order, in one or two chains (a hotly debated topic), with a reserve much like other nations' light troops. Kutuzov, as a young jäger commander, wrote a particularly nice set of jäger skirmish insstructions, published with many nice plates in 1786.
The jäger did also learn the drill for formations, and this did include deploying in line in three ranks and detaching the third rank to cover the front/flanks as skirmishers. But I cannot recall this ever actually happening with the jäger. A more typical formation for jäger, if one was adopted, was a column used to assualt a built-up area, bridge, etc. on restricted frontage.
The drill for deployed heavy infantry did indeed include deployment in three ranks, with the third rank providing skirmishers. However, it was greatly preferred that jäger did the skirmishing and the not the heavy infantry. Among the heavy infantry, it was preferred that guards or grenadiers skirmish, not regular army battalions.
As the occassions when the heavy infantry deployed were reduced, there developed a way of detaching skirmishers from units formed units column (the 1 or 2 outer files of each platooon providing picked men skirmishers). This method was in common use by 1812, and became regulation in 1818.
All of Suvorov, Kutuzov, Tormasov and Bagration were pretty strong adherents of the "jägers shooting [in open order], heavy infantry attack with bayonets [in columns]" idea. Bennigsen (and some of the other "German" commanders) did try more often to march up the formed heavy infantry, deploy them and have a firefight.

"Russian Jaegers were a mixed bag most of them not really capable of skirmishing much as only some of the Rgts got any real skirmishing training."
Absolutely untrue. Please provide any source contemporary to the era that said this.
The regiments numbered 1-19 were long-service veteran units, with organizational continuity back to the 1760's and
No. 20 was formed in 1803 from forresters and wardens in the Olonetz-Petrozvodsk region, and had been organized as militia or security forces for factories their since 1788.
No. 21 and No. 22 were formed in mid-1805 from drafts of 2 full companies from existing jâgers. No. 23 was the same, raised in May 1806.
Nos. 24-26 were raised in June 1806, but from drafts from various types of regiments and some conscripts, and might have been a bit lower quality in 1807 than the lower numbered regiments.
The Guards jäger was a real fighting formation, but likely not better than the leading army units such as Nos 1-7 and 20.
These units were partly rifle-armed, with the very nice obr. 1805 jäger rifle.
What is true is that the jäger battalions were quite smaller than the heavy infantry battalions. An order of mid-1806 to brign them up to equal strength was not fully implemented even a year later, because of the time needed to select and train jäger.

Sources:
link
link
al24.ru/pdf_kniga_2248.html
listat.ru/T10/T10_a01.htm
the above translated by Mr. Conrad : link
link

- Sasha

Sasha,

Wow great information. I was thinking about doing jaegers battalions in four companies but having them in skirmish formation to show their ability to fight as infantry in line and from what you are saying open order. Also it would save me time from painting so much!

Also after reading James Arnolds Crisis in the Snows I would have to agree the Jaegers performed very well and seemed to always be in the fight. Their rearguard actions leading up to Eylau really show that the hard fighting they did gained them tons of experience.

Michael

Michael:

Those Jagers trained according to Kutuzov's 1786/1798 manual had training which included aimed fire at 100 yards at targets. I say according to Kutuzov's manual because in such a large and spread-out army, there were variations. Bagration was also first a Jager officer and like a number of regimental commanders, trained according to his on lights.

Kutuzov had Jagers deploy by platoons. They formed two rank closed formations in preparation for skirmish actions, three ranks for maneuver with line troops. Chains were formed by two man files, but other Russian commanders had three man files in a chain formed from a three rank formation. And of course, there were one and two chain formations [one up and one back] with or without supports.

And like most armies, but particularly the Russian army of 1805-1806, the quality and details of training, as well as experience could vary widely. It is quite conceivable that some jager battalions did deploy the third rank. At Jena, the Prussians seemed to use at least four different methods for deploying skirmishers: by third Rank, volunteers, Platoons and files for both light and line troops. Leading up to the campaigns of 1805-1806, different French generals and marchals advocated and instructed different skirmish methods. Ney's 1803 instructions for his corps proscribed the third rank, though the legere had a different set of methods they used. Lannes' corps committed lights by company and formed light battalions where the entire battalion was committed to skirmishing in the line or as supports, often by [two company] divisions. So, more than one method was the norm during this period.

In general, the Jagers were decent troops and used extensively as light troops during this period. Whether they were all or some were a match for the French is a judgement call.

For example, at Austerliz, Bragration through out the two battalions of the 5th Jagers as skirmishers, who then advanced far enough forward to take fire from the French light gun battery on the Stanton.

Most of this can be found in Zhmodikov's Tactics of the Russian Army in the Napoleonic Wars vol. 1 third chapter.

Bill