"Best scale for SYW?" Topic

I have boxes of unpainted 15mm SYW figs, many of which will never see the light of day if I don't get started soon. Love the period and the uniforms are fantastic. If you were to start out from scratch painting up a couple of armies for SYW – say Prussian and Austrian – what scale would you choose and why?

I have both 15mm and 28mm….Once a game starts you don't really notice the difference. BUT, I have to admit that I prefer 28mm…for me it's a visual thing. I just think the 28mm are more impressive.

I don't know where you're located but I have to admit I'm partial to Front Rank SYW figures (UK), but if you joint the Old Glory Army you get a SERIOUS 40 percent price break on figures.

30mm flats…
:)

Then there are Eureka 7YW figures. Sculpted to the quality standard (or near enough for me) of AB.

While close up you see more detail, frankly as you back away, there is very little difference visually. I mean honestly, a foot difference or so in viewing distance and the differences are negligible. The 3 or 4 rule that most of us see figures on a wargaming table makes the sizes irrelevant IMO.

I happen to like both scales. Minden figures, which are essentially 30mm figures are impressive and really proportioned well. But so are the Eureka figures I mentioned earlier.

To me it comes down to is wargaming and storage space, cost and with opponent availability trumping all other reasons to do one scale or another.

When I first got into ancients, 25mm was king. I had an interruption due to college and when I came back to the hobby, 15mm had taken over in my region of Texas. I almost got heavy into 25mm again but dropped the rules system that had national championships in it. Haven't had a compelling reason to go large again.

With AWI, nobody is doing it in a serious way near me. I have an opportunity to go larger and am hoping to do so. Unless I do large battles, larger figures make sense. Plus Fife and Drum figures are gorgeous.

In short, the best scale is to do both and be mad as a hatter like most of us that have reasons to do one scale or another depending on the period. Heck, I have Napoleonics in 6, 10 and 15/18mm scale. I even have loads of unpainted 25mm figures. Now, what was the question? lol

I live way over on the west coast of the US. I've got the Old Glory Army membership, but I don't think they sell Front Rank as part of their deal over here. If that's true its a pity as Front Rank look great.

I have taken a 10mm plunge into SYW, lovely figures mainly Pendraken but also have some Old Glory. That has to be the limit as like ancients I have multiple scale armies in TYW/ECW/Eastern renaissance, Napoleonic, FPW, WWII and Cold War!

Tally Ho!

I've gamed both 28mm and 15mm SYW. I have several 15mm SYW armies. My eyes are getting to the point where I question the effort to paint 18mm figures.

If its just you, I'd do 28mm figures. I was talked into 15mm SYW by some friends. Now I'm stuck with the armies since we don't get to play that often. However, I do put on games at local conventions and the SYW Con in South Bend, IN.

However, my suggestion is 28mm. It's what I'm now painting and what I enjoy doing.

Blake

My mental picture of the 7YW is of neat blocks of units manouevring in close formation over the battlefield. Because of this, I went for 10mm Pendraken – lovely figures that give the right big battle feel.

There is no "best" scale. Whatever scale suits what you want to do and the battles you want to fight.

Naturally, I'd have to say 6mm. Easy and quick to paint, still detailed enough for you to put appropriate uniform details in place, and with a small enough tabletop 'footprint' that you can easily fight battles in their entirety.

And then of course there is the cost saving in going small…

Digger, I have been in the same frame of mind for over two months now. I will do it in two scales as the sizes fit what I want to tackle the period. (Every battalion on the table for a battle).

This immediately ruled out 28mm. Just not enough room or time available to me for this size. I have samples of Baccus,Adler, Pendraken, H&R, Old Glory and LOTS of 15mm (already done). Here is what I found:

H&R: I did up both sides and love the look of the wavy lines you get when deployed. Quick to paint as if you cannot see it, why paint it if they look good unpainted? Adler and Baccus: Nice figs, both! Adler is almost an 8mm tall fig, but both have fine details that just beg to be painted. Old Glory and Pendraken. These match pretty well and I even have some Irregular 10mm in my units. (Too bad they now only sell individuals for 20p each or you must buy a starter pack that meets their mold layout it seems.)

Doing 15mm is very do-able as there is a lot of choice out there. Again, the more surface area, the more has to be painted to "look" right. My 15mm SYW will remain dormant until that "itch" resurfaces. So I went smaller. I am actually doing SYW in two scales, now: 6 and 10. My table I am doing in 6mm. The footprint of more buildings makes a built up area more visually appealing than 2-3 , in-scale buildings and calling it a town.

I decided to go with: 6mm, H&R and Irregular. They seem to match well and give a visual that matches the buildings. In 10mm, Old Glory and Pendraken. My opponent has difficulties in painting the H&R (but loves them), but he can do 10mm. All give great service. Now you may ask, why not Baccus or Adler? Again, the time it takes to paint to do justice to the figs! Between H&R 1/300th and 10mm, such an effort to do right, might as well do 10mm. I am thankful that we have such a choice!

Over the past 20 or so years, I have amassed a rather large (100 packs+ ) of H&R and Ireregular for such a project. I have come to the ppoint in my life where the scenery is just (if not more) important to me than the figures. They ALL have to look right. The smaller scales allow for more gradual slopes and allows for more land sculpturing found in nature than 15-28 sizes with the room I have to game in.

Hope some of this helps you better define what you want in your mind's eye's image. MAjor Bumsore stated it correctly: There is no "best" scale- only the the one that suits your needs. Approach the hobby that way and you will rediscover the fun of it. Do go down any "party" line just because it seems "the proper" way. You will regret it for not being true to what you had imagined. Take advantage of what's out there and pick a size that meets your needs the best! (and have fun!)

Tom

6mm without a doubt.

In fact I have the Austrians looking at me currently. My preference is for H&R figures.

Personally I'd use 15s. I find 25s take way too long to paint and my eyesight is no longer good enough for painting 10mm and below.

Having said that, if you have had boxes of 15s for a long time and haven't got going with them, then maybe it would be a good idea to make a fresh start in a new scale. There's nothing like getting some new figures to get your enthusiasm going again.

I have 15mm armies for the European war and 28mm armies for skirmishing in the Americas. But I'm adding Indians and militia in 15mm for bigger battles in the Americas, and 28mm Hussars and Dragoons, Haiduks and Turks for the Balkan fringe.

You probably don't want to follow my example.

Personally I prefer 28mm for the eye candy appeal and the sculpts are so beautiful,but it's everyone to their own,there is cost,room to game, what your group does,basically as long as you are gaming their is no right or wrong.Just game baby!..and see in the spring in South Bend Indiana for the "SEVEN YEARS WAR CONVENTION"

I started doing SYW in 15 mm but switched up to 28mm about 10 years ago

All the points above are valid – for me I like the 28mm because it gives you the chance to do up those colourful uniforms in their full glory – plus I like the look of a 24-fig 28mm infantry battalion with flags flying

That being said, I do have the luxury of a large basement, enough money that figure cost is no issue and lots of patience – I use 24 fig infantry and 12 fig cavalry units

The points about 6mm are very valid, which is why my Napoleonic armies (with the exception of a few skirmish game units) are 6mm – as to SYW, the armies and battles were (at least by Napoleonic standards) fairly small, so I think 15 or 28 mm works fine for SYW

It will depend of which aspect of the period is most important to you: Large historical battles with lines stretching for (scale) miles? Then 15mm are better suited, unless you can play in a barn.

Or is it "bathtubbed" battles in the style of Brig. Young and the House of Grant? Then 28mm is almost a must, to let the individual units shine – but you will hardly be able to accommodate much more than a dozen a side.

Full disclosure: I collect Old Glory 15s for the one, and Minden Miniatures for the other…

Thanks all for your comments. One of my great ambitions is to get to South Bend for the convention one day. I think I'm going to stick with 15s for the moment. I probably have enough to paint up a couple of sizable armies without spending a cent. I picked up most of them for a song more than a decade ago when a hobby store in the South Bay, San Francisco, was downsizing stock. I have to say, though, that some of the magnificent examples of painted 25s found on various blogs and websites are truly inspiring. My problem – multiple periods and multiple interests: Late-War WW1 in 25; TYW in 10; Medievals in 25; Ancients in 25; and now SYW in 15. Have a feeling I'm not alone.

It really depends on what rules you like. Given that, it then comes down (to me at least) options for quality vs. cost of miniature for the various companies. I am a firm believer, the larger the war/battles, the smaller the figures. Having said that, one could argue the SYW would work with 15/18mm or 25/28/30mm miniatures.

Below is a link to Minden Miniatures. One of the finest 28/30mm miniatures for the SYW, and quite reasonable given the competition

mindenminis.blogspot.com

ilodic.

I have an Ottoman Army in 15mm and am in the process of doing a Reichsarmee also.

15mm was chosen for me as the club are doing it in that scale.

If I had my choice 10mm Pendraken, lovely figures 8 figures on a 30x30mm base 4 bases to a battalion.

But I am very happy with 15mm Frei Korps.

Just got into 7YW armies. All 15mm. Building Austrian, Prussian, French, and British plus North America and subcontinent Indian and Sepoy. Pattern for each army is about 8 line, 2 grenadiers,two lites or jaegers. Two curaissier, 2 dragoon, and 2-3 hussars,. Plus appropriate artillery. Am organizing units with 4 elements (total 16 foot or 8 cavalry) and plan to use Maurice rules. Add Vauban and wilderness forts and do formal sieges.
For me time is the scarce resource and the reason I like DBA. So I'm going to play around with 6 unit groups (lite to heavily weighted infantry and or cavalry mission groups). Crosslis crosslist the different combos with 5-6 typical situations (infanty line assault, rear guard action, delaying action, etc.)and the matrix should produce 16 or so unique combos of troop group and type of mission. The
goal is to produce actions that take a maximum of 1/2 hour to play.
Oh!…figures. I prefer old strip minifigs, and if you have some to sell contact me. But I use later minifigs too, really like Freikorps 15, but also Old Glory 15s. They all seem compatible organized in their own units from 3 feet overhead. Would love 6mm (Have DBA)and 10mm are gorgeous. But the eyes are going and I still want to paint. Hmm, maybe WSS in 10mm. This is a rather long response but should give you an idea of how one person is approaching the period.

Our game table is 6 X 4 feet, nothing larger available.

That means 15mm for us if we want large battles.

My decisions have been influenced by limited table size and storage capacity for terrain in different scales. Hence I have confined myself to 6mm (WSS, Napoleonics and ACW) and 15mm (ECW and SYW). Plus, sticking to smaller scales helps to mask my lousy painting skills.

Generally, the battles in the SYW are not so large as to preclude the use of 15mm, particularly if you are using brigade level rules (like Might and Reason). That led me to go with 15mm for SYW, as the figures are large enough to show off details, without having to be the mini masterpieces that seem to be required for 28mm credibility.

What size is your existing terrain collection (at least those terrain pieces that are scale-specific)?

I've been pushing down to 15mm for that reason.

Most of my terrain that would be suitable for the period is 15mm. For me I think 15s make sense at the moment.

If I did things in two scales I'd never get anything done – two scales = twice the time.

Our game table is 6 X 4 feet, nothing larger available.
That means 15mm for us if we want large battles.

sums it up nicely. The smaller your playing space, the smaller your figures. However, you say you like the uniforms so, unless you are a painting whizz, 15mm is probably the smallest you should go.

I have a 28mm collection (Prussian, Russian, Austrian, which I'm currently reinforcing from 16 to 24 man units), but I'm blessed with a big space to play. 28mm is the one true scale (grin).

28mm is the one true scale (grin).

Lol, made me laugh, Olicana (surely the intention ) … I recall that comment about the Holy Roman Empire (neither Holy nor Roman nor an empire) …

Phil
PS sorry for the delete above (I posted a comment based on misreading the thread title): for me, 30mm flats would be perfect if it was easy to get them – but I might give 20mm soft plastics a go …

I have both 6mm Adler and 15mm Frei Korps; I started the FK over 30 years ago, so some of those are the old brittle metal.

As Dye4minis says the Adler figures are nicely detailed and paint up very well. I have them in battalions of 24 figures and the cavalry based as 5 squadrons of 3 figures. Leon at Adler once told me that they're not great sellers, which I find astonishing.

That said, the FK figures have great charm, especially the infantry, and paint up very well too.

I have both 6mm Adler and 15mm Frei Korps; I started the FK over 30 years ago, so some of those are the old brittle metal.

As Dye4minis says the Adler figures are nicely detailed and paint up very well. I have them in battalions of 24 figures and the cavalry based as 5 squadrons of 3 figures. Leon at Adler once told me that they're not great sellers, which I find astonishing. One plus for 6mm is the scope for 'paint conversions' as the basic uniforms were very similar in appearance – I would love to see French without the turnbacks.

The FK have a charm of their own, especially the infantry, and paint up very nicely as well.

I have 15s, 25s and 28s. I enjoy them all and each has it's place on the game table depending on what kinds of games you want to play. However, if I had to start over, I'd go with 28mm.

I found this inspiring although I went for smaller bases at 90mm. I did 28mm just so I could collect the Foundry Russians.
PDF link

Seven years war should only be played using 30mm Stadden figures preferably only in one pose.

I suppose 6mm just doesn't offer the detail required or scope for painting pretty uniforms…

…perhaps I need to try harder with the sculpts?

Cheers

Peter

Now, now, Peter, let's not descend into self pity. You know we love your little men! Honest.

Mollinary

Oh look come on -it should actually only be played with Spencer Smith plastics in actual fact but hey.

… of which, in this picture frame, one can discern just about as much detail as on the sixes above…

Probably less detail in fact but I always get a warm glow of nostalgia when I see them:)

Nothing better then SYW in 25/28/30mm on the tabletop. Well, imho, how good 6mm is sculpted or painted (and the adler figs look terrific)

If I were starting from scratch in wargaming I would start with 15mm today. The volume of items available is just so huge that just about anything can be covered.
When I did start into wargaming I started with 15mm, then the only retailer locally selling that scale went bust. So, I started into 20/25mm with Phoenix/Les Higgins miniatures. They went bust. So I got into micro armour. Then 25mm Napoleonics. And now 25mm/28mm for most periods and 20mm for WWII.
So, I would advise anybody starting wargaming in any period to do 15mm. Of course it depends on what your local opponents are gaming, too!

No one mentioned Blue Moon…..I thought they were excellent 15mm figures. Maybe my older eyes have decieved me.

Were they available a year ago when the previous last post was posted?

Mollinary

Another vote for 6mm (Baccus). Great sculpts, easy to paint and difficult to beat when you want "mass effect"

[URL=http://s620.photobucket.com/user/sywbloke/media/SYW%20Reichsarmee/BavarianAuxilleryCorps3.jpg.html]

Another vote for Baccus.

FMB

There are 2 good ways to assess problems like this:
1) pretend you are flipping a coin to make the choice. Don't think about the issue, just "feel" which way you want it to land. That will be the right answer.
2) the Givens & Druthers method. Givens is a list of must-haves and constraints (self-imposed and those beyond your control), Druthers is a list of features that are desirable and possible within the Givens. Givens are known facts. Druthers are the brain-storming part.

My Givens:
I want to only play Grant, Young/Lawford and similar rules.
My eyesight is deteriorating.
I want to play battles, engagements and skirmishes with the same figures.
Single figure basing to fight man on man as I enjoy this type of game.
High sculpting quality with realistic proportions.
Big units so that linear aspects are done correctly.
I want to get a kick out the visual aspects.
Solo play ( don't need to fit in with others e.g. club members. They have mostly 28mm anyway.)

Druthers:
Mythical has preference over historical.
America, Germany and Highlands settings.
Reasonable figure cost.
High quality scenery.
Style preference for detailed version of Holger Eriksson figures if obtainable.
1740's uniforms.

So I started out with 15mm Minifigs but switched to RSM95 as individually based 15mm was too fiddly.

Also look at what others are doing and decide if that appeals to you.

More Baccus for Might & Reason

I like 15s!
link

@JonFreitag

So do I,

Really I love Syw minis !!!

Like the Baccus figures in fact very very tempted for when I do Napoleonic again,(discussing with a friend at the moment) and Peter your painting is stunning, but as I mainly have to do solo because finding opponents is a problem, because of shift work, I use Die Kriegskunst rules and my own 20mm range, 28mm just wont fit on my 6x4 table, and 15mm no longer has the appeal it once had. So 20mm SYW and WW2 and 6mm for Napoleonic, for me anyway

Another factor to take into account is how much tartan you're going to have to paint! Much easier on 25/28mm!

I currently have 28mm AWI. I haven't taken the SYW plunge as of yet. I am really leaning towards 15mm so I can do the big battles at battalion scale. But there are some really nice 28mm figs available, very tempting.

I understand the appeal of 10mm and 6mm but no matter how nice the sculpting is you just don't get the detail you get in 15mm and 28mm. 6mm looks chunky, just not for me. In all honesty I would just assume play a good SYW board game.

Also my old eyes just cannot cope with them. I am now having trouble with 15s. I just can't see well enough. Fortunately I can now afford to have someone else paint them.