" Great Italian Wars figures" Topic

I realize they are right on the cusp of style changes, but are the three Perry boxes suitable for the Italian wars? There seems to be some difference between Fornovo 1495 and Pavia 1525, but I'm uncertain how much. Grossly incompatible or "only an expert could tell"?

Perhaps Perry would be suitable for the main body of "less fancy and up-to-date" troops with command and a few other figures that are later?

I got some Artizan 28mm Landsknects coming, and am thinking about rounding out the figure collection in that direction. Some of the styles look similar to The Assault Group Italian figures, which are made for that and in their Renaissance line.

I was thinking of a combo of TAG, Artizan and bulking out a bit with Perry.

Thoughts?

The Perry wouldn't work for German landsknecht or Swiss, especially at Pavia in 1525. I use them for Spanish or Italians. That said, I also like to game battles pre-1500, and am not bothered if the fashion my miniature troops wear is a little behind the times.

Check on figure size compatability. I don't know the TAG Italians but their Thirty years war figures are in the Renegade/Bicorne large size and these are not compatable with Perry/Foundry/Warlord 17th Century figures,

For early italian war, such as formovo, the Swiss portrayed here and other prints link Have been said to be inaccurate with their clothing which has said to come later. So the slash and puff may not have been so prevalent. Daniel S mentioned on here about the Swiss "free soldiers" before who would follow the main body of the Swiss in the hope of loot and employment, so there is a chance they weren't as up to date with fashion due to their wealth. I've a source which I will quote if you ask, which claims that the Swiss joined the french army in their masses due to the risk of poverty or famine in the cantons at the time, so again you could claim they weren't as well equipped. You could argue that the mercenaries by the perrys are possible with some modification, but I'm unsure and no expert, hopefully others will shed light on the matter.

TAG Italians are compatible with Perrys and Foundry (Perry sculpts), in my opinion. Here are links to some comparison photos I've posted in the past:

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I would add that the Perry European Armies figures might pass for Fornovo era (with Italian head variants, etc.), but really a bit too early for the Italian Wars overall. Definitely too early for Pavia period.

Condottiere, I know that Landsknechts and upper-class types advanced in fashion to the renaissance look, but weren't the lower classes a bit behind in more of the 1480-90's sort of look?

And the swiss were pretty poor as well.

The Swiss mercenaries lead the way!

TAG and Perry / Old Glory / Foundry all look pretty close.

The Artizan look bigger than the others. I'm guessing they'll fit in fine with my GW Empire "not landsknect" guys.

The rest look like they'd be too small.

Slashing on the clothing probably was made fashionable by the Swiss after the Burgundian Wars. It increasingly became more exaggerated.

Not everyone immediately adopted the fashion trend. And, not all slashing was created equal. The Landsknechts probably carried it to an extreme. But don't equate flamboyantly dressed foot soldiers with "rich" and plainly dressed with "poor."

Artizan are slightly bigger but not incompatible. Perry, OG, and Foundry all work very nice together, however.

Those looks good…

Amicalement
Armand

Mirliton?

Mirliton, usefull from around 1515 onwards I dare say, when the Landsknechts/Swiss fashion was adapted in parts by Italians, French and Spaniards.

The Perrys as delivered in the box will not work for the Italian wars, with the exception of the 1494/5 campaign (though the Swiss wore their hair long in that campaign, according to contemporary illustrations). Some may work for later Italians and Swiss if using other heads, but not for long.

They DO mix well, however, with the Warlord Games (Pro Gloria) plastic sets and the Steel Fist heads, so you can create many interesting characters and units. The close fitting clothes are good for the Italian style, and the Barbuta like helmets give the floppy bodies a nice Italian touch. That said, it only works so far…
If historical authenticity is not strongly enforced, mixed units make a far better standin for this era then pure Perry infantry, especially for units that are not covered by any company like French or Spaniards of the 1510-20 era.

BTW: Somewhere on this site is a posting of mine with various conversions of both kits.

The main problem you face is the kind of army you want to build. The fashion in the Spanish, Italian, French and various Imperial forces varied, and SOME units changed their character each decade (others did not, or slower).

I do own the Artizan Landsknechts and think they do not go well with the Perrys, both from size&bulk and from style. I use mine for Swiss elite from Marignano to Naples.

If you want to use them, the Perrys are best suited for Italian units until around 1515, which showed up in almost all armies. The Mirlitons show you what Italians think the Italians of the 1520ies looked like, and if you look at contemporary paintings of Ravenna to Pavia you wont see anything resembling these.

If you want to use them, build an army of around 1500, perhaps Cesare Borgias Romagnols, or the Venetians for the 1509 war. I am currently assembling some 60 cavalry and 200 infantry of the Perry sets for the Burgundian and Reichsheer conflict, around 1475 – though of course most will work for the Swiss wars and the later conflict between the Burgundian army under Maximilian and the French up to 1493.

What did not change, or only slightly, is the heavy armour. If you put a Landsknechts head – preferably one of the splendid Steel Fist heads – upon a Knight of the Perrys, be he mounted or afoot – it looks perfectly like a minor unfashionable leader of an Imperial or Landsknechts contingent of 1500-1532.

Sorry for the rant :-)