"First Impression: By Fire and Sword Rules (1648-1676): " Topic

Just in stock at the OMM shoppe from Poland, the full-color hardcover Renaissance rules set: By Fire and Sword. This is one gorgeous (and heavy) book, oversized at 8.5x12", 400+ pages.

Loaded with original artwork, re-enactor photos, well-painted miniatures, and diagrams (showcases rules mechanics), it's a pleasure just thumbing through it. One smart feature -- an index of photos so you can find re-enactor photos. There's a regular index, too.

Scale: 1 turn = 10-15 minutes, 1cm = 10 paces (i.e. 7m), and 1 figure = 15 to 18 soldiers.

Pages 185 on are army lists, which provide the following: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Kingdom of Sweden, Ukrainian Cossacks, Ottoman Empire, Crimean Khanate, and Tzardom of Russia. Nice section.

Each contains the obligatory spec chart for units, plus a historical overview, orders of battle, special rules, and, often, original artwork or re-enactor photo (like below).

As is popular now with hardcover rules, a painting guide, divided into sections such as armor, firearms, etc, shows you how to paint up figures.

Rules wise, command points can influence initiative, morale rolls, and also are used for various orders (like movement).

Movement looks straightforward enough -- give an order and move accordingly, but some units have special moves. In basic parlance, a unit can maneuver and shoot, or, do two maneuvers and not shoot. Some special actions require two maneuvers (reforming, or, med/hevy artillery limber/unlimber, for example).

Firing is 90 degrees to the front for infantry and artillery, while bow-armed cavalry get 270 degrees to the *left* side. The game uses 10-sided dice for firing, using basic spec (in army list) and modified by various conditions, with low rolls equalling hits. Nothing extraordinary in the basic version, but the nuances seem to come from the advanced rules and unit special rules (you can see the Warhammer influence in the special rules like "Their Sight is Better…" and "They Have a Lot of Guns", etc).

Charges are a two-phase affair -- initial move in movement segment and another movement (the charge) in the close combat segment. Incidental contact causes a charging unit to change targets (i.e., the enemy interposed another unit in betweeen the charges and the original target). Charger and Target units are supposed to line up when all movement is said and done -- although the 'multiple unit' melee section needs a little more explanation than "calculate one combat resolution for all units participating" given that unit with one base in contact and under 2cm away can be in melee. There are melee examples elsewhere that I suppose will explain that.

Melee uses a variety of weapon and situation modifiers to get a hit number. Each hit is followed by a save (i.e. armor test). This generates strength point losses that are compared to determine a winner, with more situational modifiers.

We did not play the rules, but this is one fantastic-looking product. The re-enactor photos, nicely photoshopped so you feel you are in the 17th century, are wonderful, as are the original artwork of figures that are every bit as good as an Osprey book. Nice little touches abound, like the maps before every army list, the 'historical' stories to get you in the 17thC mood, and other graphical touches. And, for a product from Poland, the English is quite natural -- somebody had an English-speaking editor at work (versus something that came out of a Google translator).

All told, excellent job.

The OMM list price is $99 USD, which makes it one of the most expensive wargame rules sets around (OMM offers 10% off, but shipping in US will be $7.95 USD to $9.95 USD, depending where you live). In stock now.

It looks like a lovely book but there is no way I would ever spend $99 USD on it.

Expensive, but at 400+ pages it is certainly hefty.

Yes, $99 USD is a bridge too far…..

Wow, sounds like a great publication, with all that included.

However, I'm not sure I'd want a rules set with background info of 400+ pages, at $99 USD, for such a short period.

Plus, wanting a rules set for 20 – 24 persons per figure disqualifies these as being totally unusable (humoristic sarcasm, intended).

Would be a nice set of rules probably, assuming there are skirmish rules included, for battles in the Caribbean between various nations, pirate bands and militia, etc., given the time period (but am not sure they have rules to cover for that).

Just to point out that $99 USD is price set up by On Military Matters, price set up by Polish publisher (of course without postage price) is $60 USD:
link

$56 USD seems to be the conversion rate today. Gotta add shipping to that which will probably suck. I'd bet still $80 USD ordering direct…which is still "not cheap."

I started out on the cheap side getting a PDF of the basic rules (90 pages) through the Kickstarter for $5. USD

All, my price is $99.00 USD less 10%, this gives me a reserve in case UPS shipping or Exchange rate increases. If either decrese I will increase the discount.

I paid over $1,100.00 USD to get twenty copies to the US.

Dennis

The full set of rules is basically – a set of rules PLUS painting guides for 6 armies, and a basic history of the region and conflicts that many do not know. It is top notch. To buy all of those items separately would run you well over the price OMM is asking.

I paid over $1,100.00 USD USD to get twenty copies to the US.

Yikes! I'm sure the product will sell if it is as good as you say it is.

Hopefully, my copy of the rules will be in hand next week. $67 USD for a big book o' fun (hopefully) seems reasonable to scratch that niche wargame genre niche that I get every couple of years.
Now, to find someone else that could be interested in this era/locale of gaming.

Got a chance to read through some of this, and participated in a test run of the rules this past weekend. So far, I like what has been experienced. The rules seem straight forward enough, the how-to-make army lists seems grand, while the images and history seem to be top notch. We used 25/28mm, and a large convention game is in the planning stages.

Pretty pricey----I'd like to hear what there is about the game that differentiates it from the rules I have like Pike and Shotte, 1644,Spanish Fury and Ga Pa and how it provides a different and better game and would I be getting more detailed organizational and uniform information than I now have from my Ospreys?

Ouch 100 dollars per book is way too expensive. May be a better idea to wait until there is a proper distributor for the rules and miniatures in the US as the book should be around 55-60 dollars.

@barcah2001, from what I have heard the Osprey books on this period are really bad – in some cases bordering on fantasy.

As for a rules themselves, they are pretty damn solid. The writers have gone through a lot of trouble doing historical research of armies that are for the most part completely untouched by "western" wargames – special rules and unit tactics are written and based around facts and not just taken out of the air.

Building armies and forces is perhaps the most innovative design concept, as the game is meant to be played with differently sized armies and much revolves around reconnaissance points and army size points to determine who is attacking/defending and what kind of bonuses/penalties their situation yield.

If you want an extensive review, you can read a 3 part review over at my blog (written a year ago when only the Polish version was out – the English rules are the same but also feature a few more pages since they included all the errata into the English rules):

Part 1
link

Part 2
link

Part 3
link

Also information on building army lists in Skirmish level
link

And building armies on division level:
link

I received my copy of the rules the other day and I am very pleased with what I received. While my mate and I got our copies through the KS program, I think, with all the info contained inside, the book is definitely worth the price being charged by OMM. Of course that presupposes an interest in the period.

I have seen quotes of 400, 387 and 385 pages for the English version. Which is correct?

Looks a splendid game and I am sorely tempted.

I'd be very interested in some play by play reports from different people

It's 409 pages, including index :)

Best regards
Michal Paradowski
By Fire and Sword team

I am waiting on my Kickstarter to arrive ( I ordered some extras that were not yet sculpted). Anyone interested in the feel of the game should head over to Anatoli's blog and read the battle reports. Anatoli also just did a nice analysis of fire combat in the game and the tactical lessons implicated by the rules mechanisms.

I have Pike & Shotte and enjoy that system but ordered this anyway. P&S is good for throwing a bunch of models on the table and having a nice game without a lot of complication. It puts all the onus of scenario/campaign development on the player. F&S has a robust scenario development mechanism that gives weight to the decisions players make as far as force size and composition. I also like the fact that they broke from the d6 standard and gave themselves room to develop a deeper spread of possible outcomes to reflect weapon and armor differences.

My only regret is that my work schedule is going to be hectic for the next twelve months so I may not get to do much else other than paw through the book for a while.

I have just got my copy and have started to read it.

First impressions are good but the book is far to heavy which is tiring to read after a while and will be very unwieldy to use when playing a game. They would have been far better off producing two books, one for the rules and one for army lists.

The layout is good and easy to read and there are some good concepts and ideas in the rules although I can't get my head round them all on the first reading.

The book has a very FOW/GW feel to it with the painting guide etc.

I had to laugh at the painting guide mixing different ratios of paints colours for successive layers, who on earthpaints 15mm like that!

Not read it all yet, it really is a hefty tome, but a good impression so far.

An incredibly interesting period, but with very little information available in english. Hence, the value of this ruleset, written by Poles using eastern european sources.

The armies in the east had very individual personalities.
Its not like playing ECW or TYW when one pits the Swedes against the Poles. The size of the book is a necessity.

Here in Europe the BF&S book is priced just a fraction over the similarly sized Flames of War ruleset, so I think it's good value for money. That said, the rules won't be of much play value without the figures that go with them. The authors specifically chose this period because it was poorly covered in existing miniatures ranges. While famous units like winged hussars and janissairies are common, you will have a hard time fielding all the units needed to make up a proper force with correct weapons.

On the other hand. BF&S figures are eminently suitable for use with other rulesets, particularly if using DBx basing. The corresponding Fields of Glory Renaissance book use many of the same photos as BF&S.

"The corresponding Fields of Glory Renaissance book use many of the same photos as BF&S"

Can You elaborate a little bit more about it? What do You mean 'same photos'?

The FOG-R army list in question includes a number of photos of Wargamer figures, indeed they seem to be remarkably simiular to photos that were available online at wargamer.pl's webshop at the time. Coincidence?

You mean photos from website? Yeah, ok, they're used in FOG-R book with Wargamer.pl's permission – as advert of minis range :) From Callan's post I thought that maybe other photos were used in FOG-R as well.