KTravlos | 05 Jul 2013 6:12 p.m. PST |
Hi all Visit my blog for some pictures of my WIP 1/2000 Valiant Napoleonic sailing ships. link With Respect KTravlos |
platypus01au | 05 Jul 2013 7:18 p.m. PST |
Very nice. In a way, I wish I had done 1/2000 Nap naval instead of the 1/1200 I have. Doing the rigging has put me off painting them for ages! I'll like to see how they finish up. Cheers, Jhng |
Brian Smaller | 05 Jul 2013 8:14 p.m. PST |
ow do you rate these Valiant Mini ships? They look pretty detailed and the price is hard to beat. The range is quite extensive from what I saw. |
Volunteer | 05 Jul 2013 9:35 p.m. PST |
I love your site Konstantinos. DBA was my thing for many years before being replace with all things Napoleonic Naval. I am anxious to see your ships when finished. Regards, Vol |
KTravlos | 05 Jul 2013 10:09 p.m. PST |
Thanks everybody. The only other Napoleonic naval I have worked on are Langton 1/1200. So I am not sure I have enough info for comparison. I can say this: The hulls are excellent. Good detail for the size. Very nice sculpts. On the other hand the sails and bowsprits are problematic. Very very easy to bend or break. About 1/3rd of the bowsprits had to be replaced with one made from plastic broom thistles. Make sure to drill deep for the wholes the masts go in, so that they are deep in the hull and thus have some stability. Definitely rig them as much as humanly possible to add stability. It is a pity because the hulls are a beauty. You pretty much must understand that expect if you are very skilled in modelling small sailing ships (I am not), 1/2000 is a game scale. You put enough work to make them presentable as game pieces and not as good models. That is for 1/1200 scale. Hey Vol. I am still committed to DBA with the Napoleonic Naval being a side project ( I found them really cheap). That said over the last year board-wargames have taken my free time more often than miniature games.They are cheaper, give a better scale at the operational level (which I like) and some of them can accommodate a lot of players. Essentially my policy on miniature games is now 1) things that I can in reasonable price and time have enough for 8 players (ergo DBA, Naval games) ii) stuff I feel like, that are not really going to be full projects. I still need 3 armies to complete for my 6 year DBA project (have enough armies for 8 players). |
1968billsfan | 06 Jul 2013 12:22 p.m. PST |
Thanks for doing the 1/2000 Valiants. I find them fairly easy to paint and rig. I use craft store thin, black nylon coated stainless steel bead-stringing wire for the rigging and it solves the problem of weak masts and bowsprints. I just gotta get my camera set up and make a tutorial- this is so easy to do and makes the models very strong to mishandling. I use craft store black nylon coated, stainless steel "thread" # 0.015" diameter. This wire is easy to cut with fingernail clippers, stiff enough to provide strong support to both pulling the ends apart or pushing them together. easy to glue with white glue (which disappears) and can support 10 -15 pounds. I put 2-3 fore and back stays on all masks, 2 shrouds to each side on each mast and 3-5 segments to hold the bowsprints in place. You can drop them on the floor and they bounce. see "Rigging and assembling little metal sailing ships" 18 Jan 2011, this Message Board. "Just another note is I've found that I can use Aluminum foil (used around the kitchen) to mold around the ship hull and keep it stationary for gluing on masks and sails. If you leave surplus foil extending from the sides and then cut it with scissors to leave a flap, then you can move this and krinkle it around the mask to hold it still while the glue (I use white glue) dries." PLEASE give this a try! |
1968billsfan | 06 Jul 2013 12:29 p.m. PST |
By the way, nice pictures of your ships. I always paint the basswood bases to match my ocean cloth colour, paint in a wake, and put a dot at the waterline at midship to serve as the origin of the ship for measuring shooting distances. Other things to make pretty are to go to evilbay and buy some (an oz. is plenty) grey or black sheep wool roving to sever as gunpowder smoke (it helps to keep track of who has fired already and maybe your rules penalize ships firing into their own smoke) as well as a foot of some red-orange wool. (good for gluing to a penny with smoke around it to show who is on fire). It will take you 10 minutes to order 10 minutes to make up the playing aides and it really beats the pants off of using cotton balls for smoke. Want a cloud bank? ..batting from a fabric store works well. |
Volunteer | 06 Jul 2013 4:56 p.m. PST |
Wow, great tips Alex! I have never been happy with cotton balls. I'm definitely going to give the wool a try. Thanks. Konstantinos, finding players at all is my problem. Since moving to Spokane from Alaska the gaming has dried up. There just aren't any gamers close to me that aren't exclusively fantasy. So board games might in fact be better for me to recruit players for. If I could just find a good age of sail board game. All of the good ones are out of production now. Regards, Vol |
KTravlos | 06 Jul 2013 7:27 p.m. PST |
1968Billsfan thanks for the suggestions. I cannot promise that I will follow them, but thanks for offering them. I actually read that article but after some mistakes I am leery of wire. Instead i use hardened with white glue thread. Vol. True about he old rules, but you can always look at places that stock old or OOP games like Noble Knight Games. You also never know what you can find at the local games store if you look. The Dragons Table in Campaign IL is a treasure trove. Hey I stared doing fantasy. Just keep inviting people to play and give a try. Organize a campaign on semi-historical or fantasy world. I am not saying it will work but eh, what can you do. |
Mark Barker | 07 Jul 2013 5:58 a.m. PST |
For boardgames have you tried GMT's Flying Colors ?
and we use teddy bear stuffing for 1/1200 gunsmoke, no kidding ! Good colour and you can tease it out so that you can still see the models through the marker. Best wishes, Mark Barker The Inshore Squadron |
Mark Barker | 07 Jul 2013 6:04 a.m. PST |
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Volunteer | 07 Jul 2013 10:47 a.m. PST |
Very nice photo Mark. Interesting detail on the sails of that front ship. I don't think I've ever seen the reef lines that way before. |
KTravlos | 07 Jul 2013 10:56 a.m. PST |
Beautiful! Mark, I have not tried those yet. I was actually looking at 1805: Sea of Glory as a operational game. For miniatures I am going to go for Kiss my Hardy. Easy to teach and with many dice which makes little children happier when playing :) |
Volunteer | 07 Jul 2013 5:07 p.m. PST |
Kiss Me Hardy is my game of choice too. |
whitejamest | 07 Jul 2013 5:54 p.m. PST |
Really beautiful ships Mark. I played my first games of Flying Colors yesterday, and enjoyed them a lot. There are a few strange points in the rules, but I look forward to getting my own set. KTravlos, nice work on the Valiant ships, I look forward to seeing them finished! - James |
devsdoc | 08 Jul 2013 2:32 p.m. PST |
I love this thread, Thanks to you all for your input. Be safe Rory P.S. Mark, I'm still interested in the computer game and still need your help. |
Mark Barker | 09 Jul 2013 11:30 a.m. PST |
James, Make sure to download the updated rulebook Flying Colors rulebook from GMT. There is a Forum on Consimworld, if you are not on that and want to post a question or two here (after all you can play with miniatures) I'd be happy to help. Mark Barker The Inshore Squadron |
whitejamest | 09 Jul 2013 6:00 p.m. PST |
Mark, I (think!) I understand the rules (I did get the most updated set from GMT's website) it was just that a few points felt a little strange to me. Specifically, the fact that in a 'formation command' the formation can't really maneuver in something like a curved path. As soon as the lead ship turns out of the direction the rest are traveling in it is 'out of command' (as long as it is not close enough to the leader) and not likely to be able to fire. All the ships have to turn at once, which seems a little funny. Or am I reading that wrong?But I can understand the need for the game to set stringent requirements for command groups. I really did enjoy the games a ton though. I've already caved and ordered my copy of Serpents of the Seas. Thanks for the direction to Conssimworld too, I'll definitely stop by to check that out. I think I will look in to making myself a hex mat sometime soon
Sorry I hijacked your thread KTravlos! - James |
KTravlos | 09 Jul 2013 9:57 p.m. PST |
James! Do not worry about it. The information is great. Here is an update on the work. link |
Mark Barker | 10 Jul 2013 12:44 p.m. PST |
James, No, you have got that spot on. The playtest team for Vol III (which includes yours truly)is currently working on a modified version of the formation command rule to allow a line to turn in succession without disruption. If you really get the bug I've written some articles for GMT's C3i magazine with additional scenarios etc. Best wishes, Mark Barker The Inshore Squadron |
KTravlos | 10 Jul 2013 12:54 p.m. PST |
Since we are talking about GMT. Have any of you had the chance to try the 1805" Sea of Glory" game by GMT. I am slowly becoming a operational/strategic level gamer (Which explains my shifting to board games from miniatures. It could be a nice way to generate battles I think (i have played Great War at Sea and loved the operational level game). |
KTravlos | 12 Jul 2013 11:37 p.m. PST |
My napoleonic ships are done. Check them out at my blog. I posted a different message on their completion on the boards! |
Mark Barker | 13 Jul 2013 3:13 a.m. PST |
Konstantinos, Regarding Sea of Glory I helped out with the OOB and initial ship dispositions and the designer was good enough to give me a credit. The hidden movement and uncertainty as to the enemy objectives enthrall some people and bug others. As the British player you can often find that the sea and weather are more implacable opponents than any phantom battlefleet. I think it is a unique representation of the challenges of strategic naval operations in the Age of Sail, and perfectly shows why Napoleon could never get his head around naval warface. It does take a long time to play – there is a shorter playing Trafalgar variant by Alan Richbourg in C3i Magazine #26. I have been playing with mechanics to take the battles that the game generates (currently resolved by a clever system of tactics chits and die rolls) and transfer them to Flying Colors to play them out (and I know I am not alone in this) – they may get to see the light of day when I get the time to work them up. Again, rulebook and play examples are on the GMT website, so you can download and have a look before you buy. I'd recommend it, but then I am a bit biased :-). Best regards, Mark Barker The Inshore Squadron |
dantheman | 13 Jul 2013 5:58 a.m. PST |
Mark I think Age odf Glory would be a great system to expand to the whole age of sail. I enjoy AWI the most as fleet disparity is less. I also have Flying Colors and its first expansion. But for larger fleet actions my group does not like the fire tables.. I understand the next expansion will streamline this. Is that true? If so, can you give a general idea without spilling any beans? |
Mark Barker | 13 Jul 2013 12:41 p.m. PST |
Dan, Can't really go beyond what the Designer has put in the public domain – there are some tweaks to the fire tables but nothing that would seismically affect a normal fleet action. What in particular is troubling your group ? Mark |
dantheman | 13 Jul 2013 2:00 p.m. PST |
The complaint players had when I hosted games is that you have a rating chart with several modifiers for determining your firing table. Then you have to go to the firing table and roll a die, revising the result with another set of modifiers. The multiple look ups and decision points took time. Also some players got confused walking through the process. It took a while for some to get the hang of it. Their preference is one chart with key modifiers. Minorca is not a problem when I played it, but when we played The Glorious 1st of June with six players it bogged down a bit. |
Mark Barker | 14 Jul 2013 12:53 p.m. PST |
Understood, 1st June is a monster regardless of which system you try to use. There are more steps than is normal in a boardgame but it is still a piece of cake compared to most miniatures sets ! The new rule set will include some new modifiers (sorry !) for some of the unique weapons used in the Baltic/Black Sea – if there are any other changes in emphasis when the draft rule set gets confirmed I will let you know. Mark |
KTravlos | 17 Jul 2013 9:04 p.m. PST |
We played a game using Kiss My Hardy at the Dragon's Table in Campaign with the local gaming group. A British 2nd rate and 5th rate vs. a Spanish 3rd Rate, a French 3rd Rate and a French 5th rate. The wind was against the British with the frigate getting hammered by the allied ships, and the 2nd rate being too slow to help. We ended when the frigate stroke its colors. I like the system but the slowing and increasing speed rules make absolutely no sense to me the way they are written |
Volunteer | 19 Jul 2013 2:56 p.m. PST |
Konstantinos, They are actually pretty easy when you get the hang of it. The basic speed of each ship is based on the rating. The changes to the basic speed are determined by the direction of sail relative to the wind. You can't sail dead on into the wind. Sailing with wind on bow reasonably will slow you down. Sailing with wind on quarter is of course the fastest. Some might thing sailing with the wind directly astern would be fastest but you have to take into acount that the mizzen sails would block a large portion of the wind from reaching the main sails and likewise the foresails would get little wind at all, therefor the ship speed is reduced. The other way the speed decreases is with damage points or the loss of a mast. Regards, Vol |
KTravlos | 19 Jul 2013 10:13 p.m. PST |
Vol I actually read the decreasing-increasing rules in a different way Let us say you are sailing with the wind astern. You could decide (depending on crew rate)to sail slower than that (at the at bow rating)by lowering sails for that turn. Or faster than that (At the at-quarter rating)by putting up extra sails. That actually is the only way the decreasing-increasing rules make sense for me. |
Volunteer | 20 Jul 2013 2:57 p.m. PST |
Well, you could put up extra sails on your main mast that would catch more wind over your mizzen, but more on your foremast would still be blocked. Frankly I never stay wind astern, but tack back and forth to keep the wind on my quarters, much simpler. |
BubbaCleese | 10 Dec 2014 3:18 p.m. PST |
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