"Common errors of vendors selling painted AWI figures" Topic

Arrghhh, it happened again. I see some beautiful painted figures for sale that I won't buy because of an easily avoided historical mistake.

Perhaps people can add to this list and hopefully some of the people who sell well painted, but inaccurate figures will take note of the thread and increase their potential sale base by making some simple corrections.

1. Generally speaking British musicians wore inverse coat facings EXCEPT for blue faced regiments which put their musicians in red coats like the men.

What this means is a green faced infantry regiment should have musicians with green coats and red facings, but a blue faced regiment has red coated musicians with blue facings like the men.

It just kills me when I see well painted British musicians in blue coats because they never existed.

2. By the time of the AWI, British infantry regiments had white turnbacks on their coat tails, but Royal artillery kept red turnbacks until nearly the end of the war. The only exception was buff faced British infantry which also wore buff waistcoats, breeches, belts and coat tail turnbacks.

3. Royal artillery had white leather cartridge pouches, not black like the infantry or most American artillery.

Don't bother me at all.

Robert,

I am not saying that figures painted wrong should never be used. It would be nice though if vendors that took the time to produce well painted figures did them correctly. I know a couple of vendors that would have a lot more of my money if they fixed these errors.

I guess I've done all mine wrong.

Are you buying them unpainted? If so, then you will paint them correctly. While it would be nice to have the display models correctly, and I agree with you that they should be, it is not going to stop me from buying the are metal.

Paint's cheap. Fix 'em.

Gentlemen,

I am not trying to make people feel bad about their figures if they have some mistakes. I buy most of my figures prepainted. I simply don't have time to paint them myself or even correct errors. I am just trying to call out some common errrors I see frequently in painted AWI figures that are for sale in the hopes that some of the people who sell them will take notice and change their painting scheme. I have called out some basic, common errors, in the hope they might go away.

I can imagine how frustrating it is to encounter such obvious errors.

Perhaps a thoughtfully considered letter to each painting service will help address your concerns.

I know how much I would appreciate unsolicited advice from an anonymous expert from the Internet, so I'm sure they would receive such correspondence with equal heart-felt thanks.

Hello All,
Redcoat has a good point. It really does not take that much time in todays info injected world to find resources to paint it right. Some things are iffy , but there is a lot that is documented, such as British drummer coats. Depending on what you are paying for figures, you should expect a relative degree of accuracy. Sometimes you need to give a painting service some thoughts on what you want. Especially when it comes to irregulars. I deal with two painting services (Evil Bob and Pictors ). Go to my website at loyalhannaoutpost.com and look at the figures they painted. Evil Bob needed very little instruction on what I wanted, and Pictors figures were painted for a customer and both caught the flavor of the period. That is because they do historical research. Which is what should be expected for a top notch painting service. If you are not sure that your painting service is on top of their research, Darthfozzywig has a good point, contact them and kindly request your wants. Hey, it's your money.
take care,
Keith

What do you mean by "vendors of painted miniatures?" Some may think that is a dumb question, but I see a great variety of vendors with painted miniatures. And, the variety is created by what people are willing to pay for their painted figures.

Buying from a vendor who has things painted overseas by low cost labor, may mean a good paint job, but not with all the little things like the difference in drummer coats. Or, if you are using someone in the country of your origin, and they paint well but charge very little, again don't expect them to do all the research. Your paying for a painted British regiment, red coats with buff, green, or whatever facings. Your not paying for the research.

If you are having the figures commissioned, then giving some instructions about the drummer would be helpful, because not all commission painting services have the time to do research.

"Royal artillery kept red turnbacks until nearly the end of the war."

I thought that they had blue turnbacks until switching to white.

Sounds like something Sheldon Cooper would say.

By Vendors I mean sellers ranging from people and companies that sell on Ebay to companies that sell finished product over the Internet and do a wonderful job except for some of the errors mentioned.

As to my credentials, although I have been used as a consultant a few times, my credentials aren't any more spectacular than that of many other reenactors. The errors I pointed out are not particularily controversial, however, and can easily be double checked.

It seems to me a lot of people in the industry pay attention to TMP and I thought this might be a good forum to post my note. I did not intend to offend anyone.

SashandSaber,
Although my post was directed at sellers of prepainted figures, the photographs of your Royal Artillery set on your site are painted perfectly: blue coats, red facings and coat tail turnbacks, yellow hat trim, and white cartridge pouches. I really like your sculpts too. They catch some pretty subtle details.

"The only exception was buff faced British infantry which also wore buff waistcoats, breeches, belts and coat tail turnbacks"

Painting figs is the only part of the hobby I do not enjoy. So I usually purchase painted figs or ship off my lead to be painted. I have had to touch up a few figs that I've purchased already painted. But the above comment I was not aware of. So now I'm debating should I fix that battalion or just leave as is??? hahaha

I can't speak for other painting services but if someone finds errors in my ready-made, painted units I welcome a friendly email that mentions this error and suggests the right way to do it.

However, I have yet to receive such an email in almost 3 years of selling ready-made, painted units so either I don't make errors (doubt that) or people just don't mind, don't know or don't care.

The ones that do know should share their knowledge by sending that email to the seller that made the mistake and I repeat, I welcome corrections so pls let me know if you see painting errors on my products.

That being said, send me your money Redcoat 55 cause my AWI figures are correct! :-)

Fons
mmps.asia

Thanks for letting me know. I did make this mistake and will correct it, (luckily I only have one painted incorrectly so far.) Not entirely my fault, I took it from both text and a diagram of a popular, though famously flawed, uniform guide.

I know what you mean about accuracy…once you know something, you cannot un-know it.

ilodic.

How do you know what was actually worn in america by musicians or anyone else.

You don't.

In the same way as British redcoats often faded to bright pink. Accurate but would you want your British in them?

Its toy soldiers. Admit it and stop button counting I say, it scares away new gamers to read such nonsense.

Jaz
TMP link

That's a bit over the top Jaz. It isn't 'nonesense', it is one person's POV and he is entitled to express it just as much as you are.

Why should it scare away new gamers ? If they have no interest in historical accuracy at all then they won't last long and if they can't put up with a few minority views or specialists displaying their knowledge they will soon fall by the wayside as well.

It may be 'toy soldiers' to you but that doesn't mean everyone has to dumb it down to the same level.

Personally it wouldn't bother me if such errors were made in that period but it isn't one I'm interested in but I do know that a LOT of records exist that give us a damn good idea what WAS worn in that war.

EVERYTHING "scares away new gamers".
A desire for accuracy supposedly scares them away. (Which makes me wonder why anybody would want to game with inaccurate figures…)
People who play to win scares away new gamers. We should play to lose?
The size of an old timer's army scares away new gamers.
Etc.

I am NOT in the practice of recruiting new gamers, and never have been. If I run across like minded people, they are welcome to our group.
I have been burned in the past by recruiting new gamers. I have given them figures to paint, and they disappeared with a lot of figures. I have made room for them in a game, and they get called away because it's their turn on the computer.
I prefer to welcome a mature person who already holds my interests than try to "convert" a teenager with ADD.

<<How do you know what was actually worn in america by musicians or anyone else.

You don't.>>

Well yes, actually we do. First, we have the official regulations (which most units – certainly in the Crown Forces – tended to adhere to). Second, we have many, many personal and regimental records of what clothing was delivered, how it was modified in terms of tailoring, and what was actually worn in the field. We even know this, on and off, for the less well supplied Rebel forces.

<<In the same way as British redcoats often faded to bright pink. Accurate but would you want your British in them?>>

Well no, actually they didn't (and btw no colour fades to a "bright" anything). There are numerous accounts from the 18th and 19th centuries as to what British coats faded to. If you've found one that lists "bright pink" please cite it – you'll certainly attract a lot of attention with it – but the ones I've come across mention anything from tawny to terracotta, but more typically "brick red".

If these figures were otherwise a good buy, why not just get them, and then repaint the one offending musician's coat?

or take him out and have him flogged by the other musicians in your army for being a recalcitrant…………

Redcoat and SM are spot on.

The only pink coats I am aware of are those made of silk, and worn by higher ranking officers in sub-tropical climates. Rather famous painting of that, IIRC.

The problem with any painting service is they can't be experts at all periods, and do the best they can, with whatever they are looking at.

Sash and Saber guy. :-) Yes, RA turnbacks were red during the AWI period. Need to get you out to an event again. You missed a really good one this year at Monmouth. Excellent, and we had a lot of RA guns too. Hope to see you at Hcon.
:-)

Awwwwww --- Come on Guys! Give Redcoat a break. These things are important to him and if he feels that a painting service should get it right, that's his opinion. He exercised his right not to buy them. It bothers him so be a little sympathetic, and if you're going to push the point to the nth degree- he's got a point as far as historically accuracy goes, and we can get into "what's good" versus "what's good enough" which again goes back to the players.

I don't have a dog in this fight, as my infantry from the 18th century ARE in bright pink coats, but I paint only Imagi-nations and the the guys I am referring to is the army of Princess Trixie of Saxe-Burlap und Schleswig Beerstein.

Paint them your self!
Then you have nothing to BITCH about!!!

All these errors would be avoided if figure painting services would just buy the appropriate Ospreys. Preferably from me!

Redcoat makes some valid observations, I don't know why he is attacked just for presenting them.

For those willing to learn, that is surley for interest – for the others – paint your British infantry pink ;-)).

"If they have no interest in historical accuracy at all then they won't last long "

I disagree. I've been fantasy and sci fi minis gaming for 20 years and have only recently gotten into more historicals. I just bought about 400 WSS models and will be painting them up to look good, not about historical accuracy and which regiments were at which battle. I will probably do the same for AWI (I'm doing the Fife and Drum KS). I want to have a fun game more than care about button colors and which animal's skin someone's belt was made out of :)

Judge that's fine for a lot of people but not for all.
Mark

I'm with the crowd that both paints to historical standards for their historical figures and lets his imagination run riot for his fantasy/sci-fi figures.

If you're interested in having your historical figures be historical, don't have a hissy fit because someone mentions that there is a painting error (my personal one being Prussian grenadiers with standards for the SYW).

On the other hand, if you're doing imagination figures, anything goes. My SYW Teddy Bears are pretty wild (smile).

I don't think anyone cares if a figure/unit has the wrong button colors, or the turnbacks are off, etc., really there is a level that is just too anal to care about. That said, why not strive to match the historical uniforms if possible.

However, if a pre-painted figure/unit was ordered and the buyer did not make it clear on every detail how it was to be painted, shame on him.

Just ordered an unit of 25 mm Austrian infantry SYW to be painted for me. The painter did a great job, but I'll ask him to 'whiten' up the coats for the next unit and make the facing colors brighter. The painter's fault? No, mine as I did not think through the fact that two people, communicating via e-mail can interpete things slightly different. Will I touch up or repaint the figures…hell no, they look great.

I am painting hundreds of 15 mm WSS figures and attempting to do a historical paint job on them. Are most of the painted figures out there that I see historical, no. Different armies of the period used different arrangements of belts and cross-chest belts, let alone variations of common head dress, so you're in trouble from the start if you don't know the subject. Would I point out or make a comment if someone in my group showed up with figures that had the wrong belt arrangements, again, no. The figures are painted and I can tell what nationalty they are, so why would I care? If asked, I would explain, but not otherwise.

My figures are just that, mine. The care and detail I put into them is for me, not anyone else (smile). Don't like the painted ones being offered, don't buy. Simple.

Dan

I think we are being a little sensitive.
I enjoy a nice Brie but does not mean l Dont enjoy a rustic
West Country Stilton.

Dan – if I want painting advice on a unit I would ask for it. Having someone "point out" the flaws is not always helpful or nice. So I can well see how someone could have a hissy fit if offered some unasked for "helpful advice" – there are ways of doing that, especially to new comers.

And having seen how my kids got turned off by the "accurate detail" brigade, I am getting far more into the "let's have a fun game" school of thought. I generally will paint accurately as it is just as easy for me as I have teh research – but I know when I was younger my French fusileers had red shako cords as that was the only picture I had at that time (obviously it was a grenadier ). And my Imagi-Nations are turning out to be quite fun to do – and I don't have to worry about the right facing colours all the time.

But back to OP – seems a useful little point, not directed at anyone in particular so rather helpful.