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"Not exactly what I had in mind..." Topic


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2,380 hits since 16 Jun 2013
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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oldnorthstate16 Jun 2013 7:13 p.m. PST

Several months ago I wondered aloud why there seems to be very little interaction between the electronic gaming community and historical miniatures wargamers…I noted that several electronic gaming companies used to attend HGMS East shows. There was a variety of opinions about the continuing disconnect. So with that as background I noted with some interest the following news item on the Matrix website…

"Matrix Games and Slitherine (www.slitherine.com) announce their participation at HISTORICON, a gaming convention devoted to historical gaming, which takes place in Fredericksburg, VA over 4 days in July each year.

HISTORICON draws thousands of gamers from around the world together with a variety of vendors offering everything needed to recreate historical or fictional conflicts throughout the ages and beyond. Scenarios range from ancient history to the modern era, while some even create games from the rich worlds of Sci-Fi and Fantasy."

Fair enough, there are some sci fi and fantasy games…but then the next paragraph reads…

"During the event, on the 18th and 19th July, Slitherine Group will host its annual press conference to discuss and present its forthcoming projects to industry journalist, developers, guests and personalities. The most important will without doubt be Dr. Buzz Aldrin, former U.S. Air Force combat pilot (66 missions in Korea) and NASA astronaut, who took part in the first Moon landing mission and became the second human being to walk on the Moon.

Dr Aldrin's attendance will undoubtedly thrill and delight event attendees. He is collaborating with Slitherine and their developer Polar Motion in the creation of Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager which depicts the race to conquer outer space."

Whaaaat…really? You come to the premier historical miniatures convention and you have any number of electronic wargames in your stable, ranging from strategic to tactical and you wan to promote your "space" game?

What did I miss?

db

vagamer63 Supporting Member of TMP16 Jun 2013 7:45 p.m. PST

Buzz has taken an oath to spend the remainder of his life trying to convince the American public to push for a return of the U. S. to the moon. Sadly, with the country soon to be $20 USD Billion in debt, as a nation we'll be lucky to afford to cross the street to buy a Big Gulp for many generations yet to come!!

It's rather sad that Buzz, and Slitherine are wasting their time, talent, and money in our space for little good!!!

Ivan DBA16 Jun 2013 8:05 p.m. PST

I think Buzz Aldrin attending Historicon is an amazing honor for the event, and you need to stop whining.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP16 Jun 2013 8:13 p.m. PST

I don't see the issue.

chuck05 Fezian16 Jun 2013 8:34 p.m. PST

Seems to me that the moon landing was a historical event. Why wouldnt you consider a game based on the race to the moon historical?

vojvoda Inactive Member16 Jun 2013 9:33 p.m. PST

Well I agree with Dave, I see no real interest from the hard core HMGS convention attendees, but if it is not on HMGS's dime who cares.

Maybe someone can get Him into a game of UFO Hillbillies. or maybe a CY6 Jet game.

He was in the Korean War and he flew 66 combat missions in F-86 Sabres, shot down two MiG-15. Life magazine featured gun camera photos taken by him of one of the Russian pilots ejecting from his damaged aircraft.

So Space be damned have him talk about Korea.

VR
James Mattes

doug redshirt16 Jun 2013 10:49 p.m. PST

About a game of lunar rover wars. Turn your lunar rover into a death machine. Run over the cosmonaughts at the grand speed of 5 mph. Or will you mount scythes on the wheels to slice and dice little green moon men.

6sided Inactive Member16 Jun 2013 11:18 p.m. PST

What?

Jaz

Coming Soon: GLORY – Grand-Tactical ACW Rules

link

Angel Barracks Inactive Member17 Jun 2013 2:07 a.m. PST

I think Buzz Aldrin attending Historicon is an amazing honor for the event, and you need to stop whining.

Aye.
If you don't want to play his game then don't.


Now, this bit will no doubt cause my stifle count to rise, but whatever…

I always got the impression that manners and respect for elders was much more drummed home in the US than here in the UK.
Watching US documentaries I see a lot of young people calling their elders sir and ma'am.
This I always thought an excellent thing.
In fact in a few face to face dealings with Americans and Canadians for that matter, I have been called sir by people younger and older than me.
This I thought extremely respectful, though as it was so unusual I did get a bit embarrassed, though that is my own fault not theirs.
So this seeming lack of respect for someone who is a bit of a living legend strikes me as being really odd.
Yes I am making a stereotype with all US people being respectful, but stereotypes are born of some fact, or so I thought….?

MadDrMark17 Jun 2013 3:20 a.m. PST

Hey, when Mongoose Games was promoting their Babylon 5 Roleplaying game, they trotted out Claudia Christian as a spokeperson, and she wound up sitting on on several RPG sessions and having a blast. What could it hurt to ask Dr. Aldrin to roll some dice?

And, AB, the reason we Americans show respect for our elders is because we have such short historical memories that we can't remember the rotten crud they pulled int heir youth. :)

OSchmidt Inactive Member17 Jun 2013 4:48 a.m. PST

I agree with James Matas

I won't be going to H/con but if I could I would definately want to see one of the men who walked on the moon and listen to anything he had to say, about the mission, Korea, or some dumb space game. Only a very, very, very tiny minority of humans have been able to walk on another planet (yese even a moon) and he's one.

I actually would be embarrassed. To think that a great hero like Aldrin has to pander to a bunch of geeks to try and keep the Americans interested in space. Oh well, but nothing can be allowed to halt the growth of the 47% to the 97%. So this is what we reduce our heroes to doing.

Sad….

stenicplus Inactive Member17 Jun 2013 6:21 a.m. PST

What did I miss?

Perspective?

McKinstry Fezian17 Jun 2013 6:22 a.m. PST

I think HMGS is incredibly lucky to get an honest to God legend and I hope to be lucky enough to meet him.

Personal logo John Treadaway Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2013 9:11 a.m. PST

Seems to me that the moon landing was a historical event. Why wouldnt you consider a game based on the race to the moon historical?

+ several million.

I wish I was there.

John T

TGerritsen Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2013 12:52 p.m. PST

I frankly don't get your premise from the jump. Nearly every historical miniature gamer I know is a huge electronic gamer.

Do you mean why don't more electronic gaming companies come to shows like Historicon? I can answer that, as my day job is making electronic (or as we call them, video and computer) games.

Computer and video games are fairly expensive to make. Unless you are a small niche developer, you have to sell a lot of units to make money. That means going to places where you get maximum bang for the cost of sending your staff for several days to a small convention where the audience is there to predominantly buy and play miniatures games.

The cost is going to be similar for staffing and participation whether my company goes to a show like PAX, where you have 60,000 rabid fans there predominantly to play computer and video games (though there a strong board and mini game showing there, too), or I can spend that amount of time and effort to show to a thousand or so people who, as I said, want predominantly to buy and play miniatures games.

You DO see a lot of computer and video game vendors at a show like GenCon, which is predominantly a table top gaming show, but with enough of an interested audience that it is worth it for some vendors to attend.

Additionally, most sales for computer and video games come from either online sources (for smaller games or apps) or retail stores (for larger stores). Digital sales of large games are becoming more common for big games as well. That means in large part, you already have a 24/7 sales solution already going. If someone wants your game at 3am, they can get it immediately from the comfort of their bedroom. It's not a physical product, and if I want you check out my game, I can give you a free demo that you are able to check out any time.

So for the most part, having a video game stand at a show like Historicon is just not cost effective. The costs are high, and the potential revenue is low.

Matrix Games is probably the most likely publisher to go to a show like Historicon because a) they are small, and b) their product is much closer in alignment to table top gaming (and indeed, Slitherine writes table top rules).

Finally, from a personal and admittedly selfish perspective, as a video game maker who loves miniatures as his personal hobby, I would rather go to Historicon to play than work. I've attended Historicon for the last three years (sadly I won't be able to this year) and have run games at Little Wars and Havoc. It's a great chance for me to have fun doing a hobby I love to do..

I love minis, and would love to eventually do a minis line, but other than support apps, I would keep the minis very separate from video games. I frankly don't want them crossing over that much as I abhor most computer assisted rules sets and don't want the barrier to entry of having everyone at the table be required to own a tablet or having a computer at the table to play.

I do see crossover potential in apps that truly aid play, but I don't see making some kind of Historical version of something like Skylanders link and having it be successful.

That said, I do think there is an audience for computer or tablet versions of miniatures games I can play on the go or when I can't scrounge up a game. I'm currently playing the hell out of Warhammer Quest on iOS, and would do the same with many of my favorite mini games, but I would still paint armies and come to conventions and prefer that over a computer version if I have the choice.

As for Buzz Aldrin, are you kidding? He is living history, and I for one would love to play a space race game. It's a historical miniatures convention, and the space race is part of history. Hell, if you can game a pulp action pirate game at Historicon and not ruffle feathers, I don't see how having a game about actual space history would be an issue.

If I were the CY6 folks, I'd beg him to either play or observe a Korean War CY6 Jets game and maybe get a quote from him to put on future printings.

ubercommando Inactive Member18 Jun 2013 2:05 a.m. PST

Buzz Aldrin is going to be at Historicon. I don't care if that isn't military history; It's Buzz…at Historicon. Enjoy his presence while you still can. If Buzz showed up at The Chelsea Flower Show I'd go!

Angel Barracks Inactive Member18 Jun 2013 4:24 a.m. PST

picture

Pat Condray Inactive Member20 Jun 2013 5:13 a.m. PST

Weird! I have nothing against Astronauts, and wish Bozz Aldrin success in bringing back the manned Space Program. But I'm puzzled about its relationship to playing with toy soldiers.

holien20 Jun 2013 6:19 a.m. PST

Just stumbled across this and this year my wife is coming with me to Hcon and she is now very interested…

The chance to meet Buzz has really made her day.

Any publicity for the show is good publicity and well worth having.

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP20 Jun 2013 7:56 a.m. PST

I might be able to offer some insight since I'm also a staff writer for wargamer.com, which is owned by some of the principals at Matrix (a US company) /Slitherine (a UK company), which merged in 2010 and are now collectively known as the Slitherine Group.

The big thing to remember – IMHO of course – is that the Slitherine Group is fast becoming more Slitherine than Matrix. And who runs Slitherine? JD and Iain McNeil, both big time SOA and ancients players, with Iain actually boasting an ancients world championship on his resume. And what does Slitherine produce besides computer games? They produce all the the Field of Glory miniature rules and all the supplements in conjunction with Osprey (anyone in miniatures ever hear of them?). They along with Matrix also produce all of the PC knock offs of these very same tabletop rules and have recently snagged a license from the WH40K folks to produce a PC game. They also just announced a new editor for wargamer.com, who just happens to be a miniatures player and former SOA editor in chief for Slingshot.

From a personal perspective, they have really been pushing minis at wargamer.com lately, with your's truly providing two full-up scenarios of Loubino and Berezina as part of their 1812 coverage.

Now admittedly they do have a new space exploration management game coming out with Aldrin's name on it, and I've also asked the question about why Historicon myself. But given recent events and the overall history of the Slitherine Group, this make an awful lot of sense as a strategic business move.

Regards, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

holien20 Jun 2013 10:56 a.m. PST

Sounds like a good use of company expenses to get a trip to HCon.

;)

I have enjoyed some of the Slitherine games and they have had demo stands at Salute in the past.

I hope the trip goes well for them and they enjoy the show…

historygamer20 Jun 2013 5:34 p.m. PST

I don't know, but I think I would try to get his autograph.

MadDrMark21 Jun 2013 3:26 a.m. PST

The fact that Aldrin is wearing a Buzz Lightyear T-Shirt in the photo posted by Angel Barracks suggests that he is a Good Sport of the first degree. Looking forward to seeing him.

Personal logo vonLoudon Supporting Member of TMP21 Jun 2013 9:31 a.m. PST

I played video games from the Atari on and a few true "wargames". A lot of people did not play both in my estimation. And hobby shop owners didn't want to sell video and computer games because they were afraid it would hurt sales and keep customers away at their consoles. Now that hobby shops are pretty well dead, not so much. I remember we had boardgames which I think drove the other wargames until fantasy came into its own in late 70s. Historical miniatures did fade for a few years, but by the mid eighties I think most of us wanted a pc or Sega Genesis, Playstation, or Ninetendo. The rest is history.

Personal logo vonLoudon Supporting Member of TMP21 Jun 2013 9:34 a.m. PST

Buzz is an American hero whether he sells games or not. I would like to get his autograph. I keep a large Buzz Lightyear on my bookshelf, just to the right of my jar of Whoop Ass opened in 2002. USA! USA!

oldnorthstate23 Jun 2013 8:55 p.m. PST

Well, I note they have also announced that Gary Grigsby will also be in attendance…that's more of what I was thinking…he is the designer of, in my opinion, the most complete computer wargame, War in the Pacific, Admirals Edition.

db

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2013 5:47 a.m. PST

Here is the scoop on Matrix/Slitherine, and I have spoken to the editor of wargamer.com (a mini guy as noted above) and he will try to get us a who, where and when schedule.

Matrix Games is part of the Slitherine Group

About the Slitherine Group

The Slitherine Group is the world's leading producer and publisher of digital wargames and strategy games. Under the Slitherine (www.slitherine.com), Matrix Games (www.matrixgames.com) and Ageod (www.ageod.com) brands it has published literally hundreds of games, with many award-winning titles in its portfolio and spanning all digital platforms, from home consoles to modern Smartphone's and Tablets. Slitherine is also involved with BOOK PUBLISHING AND BOARD GAMING and works with a wide array of key licensing partners, such as HISTORY®, MILITARY HISTORY®, Games Workshop®, Horrible Histories™, Showtime, BBC, Osprey, Scholastic, Buzz Aldrin Enterprises and many others to deliver the best blend of historical accuracy in an exciting and entertaining way. Together the Group companies form the world's largest organization specializing in this important and vibrant niche. The Slitherine Group's mission over the coming years is to lead the way in innovation and growth in an ever expanding segment of the entertainment industry.

Regards, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

WillieB Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2013 9:48 a.m. PST

For those lucky enough to be able to attend Historicon- I'm on the wrong side of the pond-
if you have a chance to meet Mr Aldrin please tell him he has at least one admirerer in Belgium and that I for one would be very proud to get to know him or just even shake his hand.

If I was a US citizen I would be even prouder Mr Aldrin. Sir.

holien24 Jun 2013 11:57 a.m. PST

Gary Grigsby = Excellent!!!

I will now have to find out when and where he will be.

holien24 Jun 2013 12:00 p.m. PST

OK found it…

on Matrix site…

link

"Less than a month and Matrix Games will host its annual press conference at Historicon, from 18th to 19th of July, to discuss and present its forthcoming projects to industry journalists, developers, and fans.

Iain McNeil, Developer Director of the Group, and a host of development partners will present their plans for their future games. Amongst others, highly anticipated games such Ageod's Civil War II, War in the West, Pandora: First Contact, Panzer Corps on iPad and Warhammer®40,000®: Armageddon™will have their first showings. A full list of games and developers will be announced soon.

Take the chance to be part of it at the conference and to meet wargaming legend, Gary Grigsby and the second human being to walk on the Moon, Dr. Buzz Aldrin. How? If you LIVE IN NORTH AMERICA, LIKE THIS POST and you will automatically enter the competition. The winner will be our guest at Historicon Fredericksburg, Virginia. The prize includes flights, hotel accommodation, access to the press conference, 4-days pass to Historicon and the seat at annual gala dinner.
The deadline for entry is 27th of June and the winner will be announced on the next day. This is an opportunity no true wargamer can afford to miss!"

holien24 Jun 2013 12:06 p.m. PST

Follow the link. Like the Post on Face Book and you are in with a chance of winning. That is a SCOOP!!!

IronMarshal Inactive Member24 Jun 2013 12:09 p.m. PST

Wow! Buzz Aldrin. That is great! I am glad my sons and I are making the trek from PA again. They will get as big a kick out of meeting the famous astronaut as I do.

sumerandakkad Inactive Member24 Jun 2013 12:15 p.m. PST

If Iniesta can sell ice-creams then Aldrin can sell whatever he likes!

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2013 2:31 p.m. PST

Several months ago I wondered aloud why there seems to be very little interaction between the electronic gaming community and historical miniatures wargamers…I noted that several electronic gaming companies used to attend HGMS East shows. There was a variety of opinions about the continuing disconnect. So with that as background I noted with some interest the following news item on the Matrix website…

Nearly every historical miniature gamer I know is a huge electronic gamer.

Do you mean why don't more electronic gaming companies come to shows like Historicon? I can answer that, as my day job is making electronic (or as we call them, video and computer) games.

I don't think the two types of gaming are alike at all, even with their overlap of subject matter. Personally, computer games bore me silly, and that is why there is no interaction by my account. Of course, the profits shown indicate that I am in the minority.

Buzz has taken an oath to spend the remainder of his life trying to convince the American public to push for a return of the U. S. to the moon. Sadly, with the country soon to be $20 USD USD Billion in debt, as a nation we'll be lucky to afford to cross the street to buy a Big Gulp for many generations yet to come!!

I think you mean Trillion! My country, Canada, just peaked at 1.1 trillion in April, 2013.

So Space be damned have him talk about Korea.

Weird! I have nothing against Astronauts, and wish Bozz Aldrin success in bringing back the manned Space Program. But I'm puzzled about its relationship to playing with toy soldiers.

I agree with both James and Pat. Buzz Aldrin"s affiliation with Slitherine doesn't interest me at all. However, I'll be happy to say Hi, shake his hand and listen to what he has to say.

Ceterman Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2013 10:50 a.m. PST

This is very cool news!

pancerni2 Inactive Member03 Jul 2013 6:49 a.m. PST

Matrix keeps expanding on the plans for Historicon…this was posted yesterday…more emphasis on historical wargaming.

"Less than two weeks are left until the Annual Press Conference at Historicon. We wanted to give you a sneak peek at the topics and the games involved at our 2013 event.

One of the key franchises to be part of the event will be War in the East. Joel Billings from 2by3games (www.2by3games.com) and Gary Grigsby, the wargaming god himself, will discuss the future development of the series and the upcoming Gary Grigsby's War in the West 1943-45. This game covers the Allied campaigns in Western Europe starting with the summer 1943 invasions of Sicily and Italy and proceeding through to the invasion of France and the drive on into Germany.

It also covers the Allied strategic bombing campaign. Expanding and improving on the War in the East game system, WitW provides players the chance to pick alternative strategies in both the land and air war and much more!

If you will be there you and would like the chance to have chat with Joel and Gary then please stop by and visit our stand!"

holien03 Jul 2013 11:09 a.m. PST

Woot

holien28 Jul 2013 5:24 a.m. PST

Really disappointed with this hype that did not happen as far as I can tell!!

I swung by the stand to find out when Buzz would be attending and was told that he was not and that it was in anyway at a Press Conference off site at some hotel I had not heard of.

So not sure what happened and before hand I tried to find out when and where so my wife could see Buzz and could find S*D all about it.

Did anyone here attend and what was mentioned.

The stand at the show was good, and great to see some games in action but I feel let down by the whole hype that seemed to imply that it would be launched at Hcon. When you re-read carefully it does not say it…

:(

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