"Canadian Airborne Regiment 1980s" Topic

Hi All,

Can anyone point me to an orbat/TO&E for the Canadian Airborne Regiment during the 1980s?

Ta.

While I cannot find a precise TO&E for the outfit at present, this might give you a starting point if you can find the composition of an airborne commando (fifth paragraph from the bottom for the relevant timeframe):

link

While still lacking a true TO&E, this link delves a bit further into the individuals themselves, from a gaming perspective:

gamingnerdsrus.co/ty/car.htm

Last but not least, the Osprey publication can be viewed here, particularly page 29 onwards which will give some more information on the subject of the Canadian airborne in the 1980s:

link

You will not be able to find a current TO&E as the Regiment was disbanded in 1995 as a consequence of its actions in Somalia in 1992.

WIKI has some info

link

Cheers F16, that's a start. It sounds like the three 'Commandos' were semi-independent companies. I wonder how heavy weapons were distributed – grouped in the HQ or split between the three Commandos?

Thanks Mapleleaf, that's ok as it's only the 1980s I'm interested in. Yes, I remember the scandal and the disbandment being in the news at the time – a sad end to the regiment.

There's a page for the CAR on the canadiansoldiers.com website:
link

Gives a breakdown of the battalion battle group that deployed in Somalia in 1992 – while a bit later than your target of the 1980s, it gives an idea of what the CAR was supposed to be able to do, which was to rapidly deploy a self-sufficient, almost mini-brigade.

Cheers Tim,

I read somewhere of a Leopard C1 Squadron attached to FSSF, but I wasn't convinced. What were the totals for Leopards? Three squadrons in FRG (expanded to four in wartime, iirc?), plus some in Canada for training wasn't it?

Thanks Willie, most useful.

Cheers,

Mark

Cheers Tim,

Sorry for the 'F' – being an ingrained WW2 gamer, the SSF needs an 'F' in front of it… ;o)

I figured as much re the Leopards. It was in a wargames army list somewhere, but I figured he'd taken the 1990s orbat and extrapolated back to the 1980s.

Where were the D Squadron crews to come from?

Fleshing this out from my dim mess tin addled memory

1 Cdo came from the R22eR ( Vandoos)

2 Cdo came from the PPCLI

3 Cdo came from the RCR

The Commandos were larger than conventional line companies as I recall, 4 rifle platoons rather than 3.

HQ, Sigs Combat Service Support, Heavy weapons , 81mm Mortars, TOW ATGM, Recce, Pathfinders came from all three " parent regiments, mainly the 2 Anglo if IIRC. I would presume the normal TOS would have applied 8x 81mm Mortars and 6x TOWs

As noted the primary ADP weapon was the TOW usually jeep mounted.

As for the Leopards I believe the original buy was 128, although I think that included the other variants , bridging recovery etc. not just gun tanks. 4 CMBG RCD had most with 3 squadrons of 19 each plus 2 in the RHQ for 59 plus a war reserve squadron and I would presume. C Squadron was the flyover squadron, and the Arty and each of the 2 Inf Bns also had a flyover Company/Battery

There was one full operation squadron in Gagetown (19 MBTs) and the then trainers ( turretless for driver training and I would presume the turrets mounted in hangers for dry gunner training) say another 15-20. The rest would have been penny pocketed out to various testing and ordnance (RCEME etc) places such as schools in Borden.

Mike Dorosh's site linked above is usually quite accurate although he hasn't updated in a while.

Thanks guys,

What caused my confusion was finding an online history of 4 CMBG (which I can't now find) which discussed expanding the RCD to up to FIVE squadrons, which is clearly pie-in-the-sky stuff. The same article also went on to discuss a proposed Canadian Corps in Germany.

I've always assumed that the 19 spare Leopards in Lahr would be combat replacements, but do you think it at all likely that a fourth squadron would have been formed from them, as this article supposed?

Mark, are you talking about Sean M. Maloney? He uploaded some draft chapters that were published in an illustrated history of the RCAC:

link

I actually got to train with the Canadian Airborne Regiment in late 1993 or 1994 when I was an infantryman in the 82D. From what I remember the unit was stationed at Petawawa (sp?) CFB somewhere north of Ontario. From what I remember, the regiment was a large battalion, with individual commandos led by a major (as opposed to a captain for a normal line company). I believe one of the other posters is correct, they had 4 large line platoons led by captains. I also seem to remember that they had small mortars (smaller than our 60mm company level versions), recoilless rifle type AT weapons (not sure the make), M16 style rifes with scope style sights and M249 and M240 style SAWs and MGs.
They wore what was the standard Canadian uniform of the day, "OD green" fatigues, but in the field and during jumps they had the WWII style camo smocks. I do recall that when they were down at Ft. Bragg training, they did not wear the smocks (I assume due to the heat).
They seemed to be a pretty good unit and I do remember the scuttlebutt about the issues in Somalia, but we heard little else detail wise. I would have rated them similar to the US Army Ranger battalions as they seemed to have some sort of pre-acceptance training before being allowed into the unit (kinda like the Pre-Ranger course for guys out of infantry school at Ft. Benning who wanted to go to the battalions) but without all the cooler gear that us regular line guys never got…
hope this is of some help..

JustPlainJoe CFB (Canadian Forces Base) Petawawa is a couple of hrs drive north of Ottawa, right on the border with Quebec and near Algonquin Park. It was the home of the SSF of which the CAR was part of.

Majors are the normal OC of a Rifle Company in a Cdn infantry Bn, with a Capt as a 2ic. Sometimes the Pl Comd will be a Captain rather than a Lt, especially when a support platoon or in the case of the CAR when you want more experienced PL Comds.

The time frame you gave would have had them equipped with the C& series of rigfles ( our version of the M-16) with the Elcan IWS mounted. The C9 is our version of the M249 and the C6 GPMG the same as the M240. The mortars at Platoon/Coy level would have been the standard US issued M-19 60mm. They may seem smaller as then we used them without the bi-pod and base plate in more of a 1 man hand aimed semi direct fire weapon. The recoilless would have been the venerable 84mm Carl Gustaf.

I'd also agree with your assesment of the CAR being more akin to the 75th Rangers than the 82nd. (I had the pleasure of working with 2/75 many years ago during my youth as well as with the "Borne."

Mark not so much a Corps, but there was a plan toward the end of the Cold War brought in by the end Mulroney Conservatives to consolidate our NATO commitment. The CAST (Canadian Air/Sea Transportable) Brigade ( 5 Brigade) would no longer be committed to Norway but to Germany. This was an unrealistic option anyways as there were no prepositioned equipment in Norway,, and it probably would have taken 4-6 weeks to scrape up the ro ro capability to ship them there. The Battalion Group ( the CAR and/or another Bn from the SSF would still fulfill our commitment to the AMF fire brigade.

Instead 5 Bde would be earmarked for CENTAG where it would link up with 4CMBG and a Div HQ and form 1st Cdn Div. I guess there were plans to pre station the vehicles heavy weapons etc for this Brigade and the Div HQ in W Germany. Probably optimistic plans to secure enough Leos for the second Armoured Regiment (12 RBC) too, as they only had the wheeled Cougar AVGP back in Canada. The wall came down before it got past the planning stage.