"Polls and stupid questions" Topic

Howdy all. I have noticed a trend over the last couple of weeks to begin having discussions on movies of said period, how money you make, selling sports cards and such, where you live, etc,...

Maybe it is just me, but what does any of this have to do with minis. To me, and this is by no means directed at anyone in particular, it seems that individuals with to much time are asking really "off topic" questions. Who cares where you live or how much money we make or even what we do for a living.

To me, this seems like a focus group for future mass spamming. I beleive the editor is doing a wonderful job maintaining the site and trying to accomodate everyone, but of late, in my opinion, many of the polls and topics for discussion seem pretty pointless and a waste of webspace.

I realize that I don't have to click on the poll or topic if I don't like it, but with so many, I have to read between the message board topics to find some useful bit of information.

Again, this is a general observation and not a personal attack on anyone, and is soley based on my opinion, of which we all have our own.

Do I have a solution to all this? well, my solution would be is the topic generally related to miniatures and wargaming or not? If it fits in, the fine, if not, then let it brought up somewhere else. I guess it is a matter of personal interpretation.
Just my 2 cents

First of all it is great to see the number of people participating in the forums. I like the enthusiasm at this site and participating in the forums.

I do not have a problem with the polls since it is optional to take them. It would be nice to have some type of posting etiquette so that we do not have so many topics on similar themes going at the same time- If you see that there are some favorite? questions going on hold your topic for another day when one has not yet been posted. If there are 10 topics running wait for a day when the boards aren't full. Maybe their could be a limit on the number of topics running for a day?

With the increase in 'off topics' on this forum, I find it less interesting, and less compelling to read. I came here several years ago because it was a site devoted to my favorite hobby -- miniature wargaming. Of late, my enthusiasm for this site has diminished greatly.

There are forums for every topic imaginable, available to all, on the Internet. I sift through the deluge of information to surf on the topics I enjoy. With TMP being broadened to accommodate so many, varied topics, other than miniature wargaming, it becomes less valuable to me, and my surfing time is precious.

Sorry, Bill, but I feel your site is losing its charm, and its attraction, by diversifying into so many topics which have little/nothing to do with the hobby of miniature gaming.

If you are exploring ways to increase web traffic, this approach may work. You have the numbers. It is your site, to do with as you please. As you diversify, you will need to also diversify your advertising to support this web magazine. With an increase in topics other than miniature gaming, the value of using TMP for reaching miniature gaming customers diminishes. This will have an effect upon your bottom line, one way or another; vendors in other topics may be willing to pay more, but miniatures companies will be willing to pay less, very soon.

Best of luck in your new business venture, Bill. Cheers!

I rather like some of the "off topic" subjects - it is interesting to see in the polls what peoples interests and backgrounds are, and I liked the film and particularly the military music topics. Those who prefer to avoid these subjects can normally spot the subject on the link and not click on it.

I tend to agree with Sgt Slag over this one.
But I also find that no matter what miniatures/wargaming list I join there always seems to be so much talk which isn't based on miniatures or wargaming.

Shame people cannot put all that energy into scenarios, house rules, original games, painted miniatures etc etc.
And share that with the community.

Regards

Jeremey

www.germy.co.uk

I believe the OT stuff is detracting from miniature gaming discussion and posting.

I used to go to several other forums such as the GW forum. I left them because I found very little useful information, hateful children constantly throwing flames and downright nasty people.

I came here with an interest in miniatures, I found it interesting that some shop talk was done here and it was all done in a very civil manner.

After enjoying the site for several months I found many new vendors to shop from. Found out many interesting things about the WAB armies I am interested in. Quite a few vendors and dealers have gotten my business because of this site. I also founsd out about vallejo paints, great painting tips etc.

My point is, this is a very special and specialized site, we as a community(as the editor called us) should make sure it stays that way. Too much diversity will water down the content and may make it a less than interesting site.

I mentioned on another board recently that perhaps a POLL on what TMP readers think about POLLS etcetera might be a good idea. Of course all readers have a choice to read or not read the various boards and topics but I do agree with the comments made above too. Still, I find it preferable to
read about gamers' fave movies or whatever, rather than see a load of bitching about games companies.
Anyway, what thoughts on a POLL for the 'overall' view on what's been happening here lately?

TC

It's interesting to note that all the folks who are objecting to and complaining about these off topic disscutions seem to find enouph time and energy to read
them and write such long comments.

I think there is a point about souring and diluting the content of this site and that is what concerns some- Yes it is true that people can choose to not read a certain thread or topic but there is a point about diminishing returns as far as the number of posts and topics. To me a few good topics everyday is fun to get into. But having over 30 to sift through is excessive and some of the more fun topics like favorite movies etc... would be better served by being limited to one topic each day instead of the many we are having run today.

More involvement and thought can be put into a few topics then becoming spread too thin on many topics.

My point is that over a week ago we had a threads on top 10 favorite war movies, favorite military leaders etc... Each of these threads had over a 100 posts each- The ones running this week have from 10-40. I think it is better with less and more participating and contributing then to have many and fewer involved.

I have to cast my lot with the nays.

There was a very interesting and very argued discussion awhile back in the medieval category about archery and the effectiveness or not of the English Longbowman and by extension how archery ought to be treated in rules. Anyone remember that? I think that was the last truly good thread I saw on TMP.

Quite frankly I feel like an idiot for having been drawn into some of these discussions of late.

I don't have a problem with the polls, 'cause they're quick and dirty. The new off-topic boards are distracting--mostly because I feel the need to respond to so many. The sports board seems particularly unnecessary. There are zillions of sports message boards on the 'net.

I would like to see TMP stay a specialized miniatures site. It seems to me that there is some banter that is repeated, but I have gotten lots of great painting ideas, and learned about lots of vendors through this site. While it may be fun once to talk about movies, it will not serve us well to spend tons of time discussing them, or the media or martial music. No offense intended.

Sgt Slag wrote: [miniatures companies will be willing to pay less, very soon. Best of luck in your new business venture, Bill.]

Well, I don't think there's any immediate danger of a financial collapse! The advertisers largely care about website traffic and number of visitors, and in both categories new all-time records were set in October.

As I've said in a previous thread, TMP is evolving in new ways. For instance, most of the polls have been reader-requested. Certainly the Message Boards are reader-driven. Some of our readers want to talk with other gamers about subjects which are indirectly or even not linked to miniatures - I think that's a natural growth of a community. And some people feel that "off topic" talk is clutter.

One possible solution is to allow members to set certain Boards as "invisible" (to themselves).

As website traffic grows, so does the number of topics and thus the list on the homepage gets a bit long. So a redesign of the homepage might be in order, to limit the list to a set number of most recent threads?

Lastly, while I don't think that "off topic" posts act as a deterrent to "on topic" posts, perhaps something can be done to foster more on topic posts. For instance, there could be a Battle Reports board in each of the periods? Or more boards covering specialized topics (i.e., Russian Front for WWII, Roman and Their Enemies for Ancients)?

The Count said: [perhaps a POLL on what TMP readers think about POLLS etcetera might be a good idea.]

I usually set up the Polls on the weekend, putting in topics for the coming week. I'll run a Polls poll next week.

As I stated in my original post, I think, in my opinion, that many of the "off topic" polls and message boards are pointless and distracting. To me, many of these seem like a waste of time and unrelated to miniature gaming. While many will and do disagree, it is true the site is growing and there are many who are coming here for their information, but it seems that this is turning into a giant chat room. While movies about periods we wargame in is remotely related to playing games, I feel it is more suited to game table conversation than on this site. My opinion, again.

This is Bill's site and he can do with it what he will, I am not criticizing you at all. just pointing out things I have noticed in the trends. i will admit it is pleasant to see something other than GW bashing( which I have partaken in on occasion, their not saints after all), all the Favorite movies covering the period of Feb29 1831 to April 1 1832 seem rather stupid. Again, my opinion. I love all the questions that pertain to putting on a good game or vendors and scenarios and minis in general and I have learned a great deal, but of late, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find topics that coincide with miniature wargaming.

I don't think that more topics would be better, in fact I think that the more topics the more open the site is to more "off topic" posts, thereby leading to more junk to sort through in order to find anything I want to read and correspond about. Sure I don't have to click on the thread, but you still have to read the topics in order to find something you like.

If this is the way TMP intends to continue in its trends, that's fine, I won't bad mouth the site or start a flame war. I will just spend my leisure time at another site or yahoo group or wherever I find topics that I feel are more in line with what I would like to spend my free time doing. I don't mean this as a threat or ultimatum, it's not my site, but as the trends take it in other directions, some of us are not going to go along for the ride. heck, it may be just me that does'nt go along. But if I am not enjoying the topics presented on the site, is there a real reason to keep coming to the TMP? Again, I want to emphasize that I am not trying to bash the site, it is just becomeing less interesting to me personally. I am sure there are many out there who like the changes, free country, so enjoy. It is not offending me, just not what I want to spend my leisure time on.

BTW, I plan on continuing to come here in hopes this is a temporary trend, if not well then I will just move on to other things with no hard feelings.

Not so this completely negative, I do enjoy reading battle reports. It helps give me ideas for my own scenarios.
Thanks all
just another of my 2 cents

News flash! Topics about off topic threads are off topic threads themselves! This thread is simply watering down the content of the TMP and should be deleted. I predict that a thread complaining about people complaining is looming on the horizon and should be dealt with promptly. When that is done the thread about spelling errors is sure to rear its ugly head. And then flame wars about flame wars. After that traffic should die off. Then people will complain about traffic dying off. This should start the entire cycle all over again.

After first using BBS's and the Internet over 24 years ago, this sort of "discussion" still makes me laugh. Relax and enjoy the ride. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you all to read every post and take every poll, then you have my sympathy. Well, no, you still don't BWTH.

OT threads are fun!!!

How about confining all of the OT stuff to the General Discussion board? That's pretty much the only reason I look on that board, anyway. I don't see the harm or distraction in having one board set aside for "other" issues. Then again, I don't find that the current format distracts me too much. I check out consumer affairs, painting, and a few of the period boards for news and then cruise into the GD board for a bit of fun.
Criticizing Bill for allowing OT stuff is a bit like going over to someone's house to play a game on his beautiful game table and then criticizing him for having a classic car in his garage. If you aren't into cars (or movies, or debates about who was the best general) then just ignore it and move along.

A lot of people believe that sports are off topic from miniature gaming. I would agree it is hard to reconcile the two.

As I posted before I do not have a problem with adding off topic areas. I would like to see them not being able to cross post or show up in the general listing area. This way the Miniature subjects still are the main theme.

We are however an intranet gaming community, we all enjoy other things from miniatures so having off topic areas may allow people to become better acquainted - and given the distances some of us live from one another the internet is the only forum.

Yes there are other website that delve into the off topic areas, but they are often filled with non-gamers, I would rather discuss mutual interest with a gamers than some block from somewhere who we only have the like of a sports team in common.

So Quarantining off topic post may satisfy both arguments.

i would cast my vote (if there is any casting to be done)
with continuing the various message boards.

i've found it interesting to see what the other members of this community like or dislike about books and movies etc.
god knows, i now have a rather large list of movies and
books that i need to check out.
that in itself, i find rather valuable.

hope you all had a good halloween.

AaronT, to use your example.

it is not that I would, or have, criticzed going over to the house and playing on a great table and complined about the car in the garage.

it is more like I have to go through a car lot to get to the house to play on the nice table, and while I may very well like the cars, I don't really want to be stopped at every car and asked my opinion on each one on the way. it really gets annoying after a while. I like the same things you guys do. What I find distressing is that there is sooo much discussion of movies for X, favorite personalities, sports cards and so on.

I to enjoy learning about movies, but I think thses things are better done around the game table among friends. Even with the filters, there are some very good topics that pop in general discussion, so i don't really want to start filtering the lists otherwise I may miss something I really would like to know more about. But quite frankly, I could care less who lives where and how much money ya'll make or what you do for a living. That is your business. What I do want more of is rules discussion, mini reviews/opinions, battle reports, sculting and painting ideas as well as information about uniforms, weapons and tactics, etc... And the consumer topics are great ( saved several times from getting burned by deadbeat vendors).

But like I said, I am not criticizing Bill, just pointing out a very recent trend in TMP for any who may be concerned. I love TMP, but of late it has become less appealing with all the "clutter". Some people like, some don't, I being in the later case. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Hmmmm. Things that make you think 'hmmmmm'.

I've never had any problem with off topic topics. I use this site for two purposes; to learn about new products and new ways to make my wargaming fun or easier, and to hear the opinions of my fellow wargamers.

So far I simply skip the threads I'm not interested in.

However, I'm not sure what I'd do, if sometime in the future I find myself skipping 9 theads (or topics) for each one that I read. Maybe if things became too diverse, I'd stop thinking of this site as a wargaming site, and move on.

One dimensional people are so uninteresting. If we spent all our time discussing miniatures, w/o the occasional side bar, we'd be very boring people. If you have ever stood in line next to someone who talks nonstop about his 251st level Lawful Good Paladin and the Paladins various adventures, you'd understand the need for a diversity of interests. One criticism aimed at historical miniaturists, which would apply to 40K players as well, is the pedantic nature of many of the hobbyists. Broadening our horizons cannot help but make us better people. I, as well as many others in the hobby, have many interests. The discovery of those interests is in itself an interesting pursuit. When I sit at the tabletop and talk with the people next to me, we often discuss things that are not even related to miniatures. Why should we be surprised that the occasional "OT discussion" occurs here, we're humans. I found the movie and book discussions to be highly informative. I have some more movies and some more books to enjoy. The many discussions that have occured, have some tenuous connection to miniatures gaming. It's not as if we were discussing the best HMO or the best porn site.

Regarding some of the more esoteric polls - don't respond if you don't like the poll. The editor has the very real business need to identify his customer base. First, he has to keep the customers happy. Second, he needs to attract sponsors/advertisers and they need to know we're part of their target market.

There aren't many places to go for reasonably honest, fairly truthful, and timely useful information about our hobby. The magazines, if and when they appear, are hopelessly dated and therefore have no immediacy.

I only actually look at six of the TMP message boards on a regular basis. And, maybe 3-4 others nonperiodically. I don't care what is being said or not said on the other boards, I also don't read every thread in the MBs I do frequent. If I don't read it or care about it, then I really don't have a reason to complain. No one is forcing me to read anything. At least, not since Sophomore Year in HS, when I had to read "The Old Man and the Sea." I kept hoping the "Old Man" would fall overboard and end my agony.

I'm for a bit of diversity, if it has some relationship to history or miniatures. Cheers

FWIW, I come to this site to read and discuss miniatures gaming and painting. I understand that off topic discussion is going to occur, because we are real people and we've built a shared community. However, I'm not keen on encouraging the OT chatter, there are other places more suitable for it. I think all the extra OT boards were a bad idea.

The polls are interesting, but I could do with a much lower frequency, no more than 1 a week.

Bill, a redesign to let us ignore some threads would be helpful. Have them show up with news stories is starting to get unwieldy. Too much volume, OT or not.

Rich

In order to create the system that you want, Hundvig, he would have to switch to an entirely different set of code for the website. At least I do not think the current software could handle something like this. For an example, see miniforums.com/discussions which is a fantastic board. It useses something called php, as opposed to mv or html, to run its system. Perhaps Bill can check into postnuke.com for the site's content management, which allows users to easily contribute info as well. infopop.com or invisionboard.com are good for the message board side of the issue. For infopop see leovilletownsquare.com and for invisionboard see miniforums.com/discussions All of this is better than the TMP currently uses IMO.

Of course, I'm posting this hoping that Bill is reading it because it's all just technobabble to everyone else. ;-)

Don't change a thing. I'd far rather have too much then have you cancel something I enjoyed. Besides if you cancel something then there will be a long side thread on how this used to be a cool site where people could talk about stuff only now they can't.

I understand the purpose of the polls by the way. Bill can now refer a potential overseas advertiser to reasonably hard data concerning the demographics of his readers. There age, income, and willingness to purchase products mailorder. It's the same reason marketers hang out in malls with clipboards.

Please don't redesign a thing. Let people get used to scanning for content. I can't imagine why anyone would care if a few gamers discussed movie inspirations for wargamming. It's just pointless to get that bent out of shape. 53,000 people can't be wrong.

I only read threads that appear on the home page (ie - threads that were just started today or yesterday). I don't actually go into the message area and actively look for threads. Once the thread falls off the home page, I'll most likely never read it again - this includes threads that I've actually posted responses to (like this one). I find that anything I need to know about the topic will be posted by someone within 48 hours of topic creation.

I'm an Oddball, I'd be the first to admit it and I wouldn't be any other way. However I'm not an anorak; conversations tend to go in different directions in life so why not in here. I started talking about Mk6 Space Marines and this has led to numerous postings about Wombles and the like. Its fun.

I know a guy who is a real subject bore who wll go on and on and on about say the X men comic, or the Deadlands game he was just in without regard for the poor git who has to listen to him.

Of this wonderful forum I ask that people respect each other (I was called a dummy once by someone who didnt really read my posting properly) and that people should feel free to talk about what ever they feel comfortable about (even if it's just the X-men). Boring topics wont generate postings and like with natural evolution become extinct. I'm not just a gamer, I'm an imaginative/creative thinker. I refuse to be pigeon holed.

I skipped over this topic till today, and now I feel compelled to say, Why can't we talk about movies, or books, or where we live? (Money, religion and politics are a definite NO) How did we get interested in miniatures in the first place? I like to hear what other people say and I will bet that almost everyone who wrote in their "favorites" topic wargames that era.

I think everyone is worrying too much over this. It will die down and everything will be fine. Let's not make an issue out of something that everyone will be tired of in a month or so.

Many of you are saying there is a lack of interesting threads. Does this not come back to all of us. If you want a thread about the effectiveness of sheilds vs arrows in Roman times start it. Don't wait for someone else and complain there are no good topics.

Personally I would like to see more discussion about rule systems but I'm not going to complain because someone else did not do it for me.

I don't care if some topics or out of my intrest areas. It just takes a few second to scan the headers and decide if I want to go there.

garness at home-polling against polls?

Lets face it, the Pointy Face one is right - the OT topics are FUN. We need more fun in the game. I agree that these threads should be kept away from the 'serious' ones, so that the miserable old fat bearded anoraks can discuss the merits of troop type X against troop tpye Y under condition Z. Personally I like to come here, chat with like minded people, have a laugh at some of the OT threads, maybe bash GW a little, learn stuff and so on. It's an escape. I love the site. My only gripe is that on the main page there's never much to interest me, so I do come straight to the message boards - especially the OT ones when I'm at work.
Sometimes, with all the complaining and nit-picking, it's like being stuck with a Star Trek fan - no personality.

PFSA, are they saying bad things about Wombles?

dan 055 'So far I simply skip the threads I'm not interested in.'

what can i add to that?.theres still alot of blue headers on my screen.

I thought OT discussion was one of the things that builds a community, in this case the wargaming community. Getting to know people, not just in their capacity as wargamers makes this community feel that much more like home. I love coming here, seeing the familiar faces and knowing their quirks, tastes and attitudes. Knowing where someone is from and what they like to watch makes the community that much more friendly and family like. This is not to say ALL polls and OT stuff is good, I mean, we could do without a poll on cheese (my fave is port wine cheddar BTW), but polls on movies, books etc. are very fun AND relate to our hobby.

Really, if I wanted a sight with strict, dry, boring discussions on wargaming moderated by dry, boring, stuffy self righteous, know-it-all gamers, I wouldn't come here (especially those guys that LOVE to hear themselves talk, but never listen to anything YOU have to say). Please, PLEASE don't turn this sight into that. Keep it real, keep it laid back and most importantly...keep it FUN.

Some people honestly need to loosen up.

yup,fun fun fun.