"French cavalry WSS - SYW?" Topic

Hi,

I know little about the WSS, but wondered about the extent to which French cavalry uniforms would have changed from WW to SYW times. I know infantry changed considerably – were there equivalent changes in cavalry as well?

FMB

Not so much. Skirts worn back.

well enough to see a difference

Turnbacks as noted, tighter fit, smaller tricornes, and perhaps some differences in the shabraques. Uniform colors would be pretty much the same.

Okay, thanks.

FMB

Actually, for many regiments (and for preparing mounted 28mm figures), there is very little difference in the figures. Generally, Royal regiments had Blue coats with red cuffs. The remaining "light" regiments had white or off white coats with red cuffs. The Tricorn was present from about 1700 to the end of the SYW. If you asked the question because you want to know whether the Wargames Factory WSS cavalry would work as SYW French Cavalry, the answer is yes.

See my blog post at
link

I agree with the Cardinal. Using WSS figures for SYW is really stretching it a bit. WAS maybe, but looking at the figures on GenWinter's blog, I would argue:

Tricorne smaller, tighter to the head (although these particular figures have quite small tricornes compared to many WSS figures I've seen)
Hair much tidier and would have a pigtail and bow at the back
Cravatte quite different style by 1750's
Coat worn open, not buttoned up; would also have facings
Coat turned back and gnerally tighter fitted

The trumpeter doesn't appear to have the hanging sleeves at the back or other livery details which were common by the mid-century.

Having said that, I have used some Front Rank WSS Maison du Roi figures for WAS as their uniforms had changed less, but they still required surgery.

Asking more about using the Blue Moon Marlburian figs for SYW equivalents.

FMB

Also remember that by the WAS and definitely by the SYW some (many?) regiments were wearing lapels.

I concede that the point regarding the pigtail. I simply don't have the patience to get some greenstuff and add pigtails.

However, as I pointed out in my post, I am only suggesting that the figure is useable for the SYW up to 1760. At that time, as we all know, the French infantry converted to lapels and turnbacks for all regiments and I am sure a similar movement was occurring amoungst the cavalry. Of course, I am relying on secondary sources such as Funcken (Vol. 2, p.14-15).

The coat on the Wargames Factory figure is gathered around the lower leg and could be painted as turnbacks but I did not think it was well defined as such and decided to leave it as is.

As for the musician, your criticism is correct. I probably should not have added him. Actually, I had glued a right arm with open hand on the figure because I thought it was for a standard bearer. It was not until the glue set that I realized the angle was all wrong for a standard bearer and that it must be for a trumpeter.

Still the figures are largely acceptable for Hastenbeck and Minden. What more do you want to game in the Western Theater?

GenWinter, I essentailly agree with your argument and (with the exception of the pigtails) have no problem viewing these figures suitable for use up to SYW. The French are certainly a good choice for stretching the envelope around this time. I have considered converting Wargames Factory infantry too, with pigtails and gaiters.

I understand the OP to be referring to 15/18mm figures. While all that's been said here about differences in detail is certainly correct, I daresay not much of it would be glaringly obvious at the smaller size, which covers a multitude of sins. So if you like the brand, or can get it cheap, then go for it!

I definitely don't see WSS figures as suitable for French Line Cavalry of the SYW or WAS. In general terms, the French cavalry uniforms actually showed faster evolution than the infantry up to the middle of the SYW, with slimmer fitting coats, turnbacks and lapels coming in much earlier, and even the cuffs tending to reduce in size. Although the Maison du Roi and Gendarmerie de France certainly did wear coats without turnbacks and lapels until post SYW (about 1767), the uniforms of the line moved on a fair bit.

Eugene Leliepvre, the foremost modern illustrator of the Ancien regime army always shows the Line cavalry with turned back coats after c1740, as did Lucian Mouillard.

In terms of contemp sources- Lemau de Jaisse in 1739 shows about half the French line cavalry regiments wearing lapels and by the beginning of the SYW almost all had them. By the SYW, Becker, the German amateur artist who drew French troops in the 1757 Rossbach campaign, showed all the cavalry regiments with turnbacks and lapels.

All about personal taste and accuracy thresholds of course, but I wouldn't really use WSS French cav for SYW in any scale bigger than 6mm.

yeah, hair's got to be tied back!