"Flames of war: Rising Sun!" Topic

According to next number of WI308 Fow will release its next EW book in July this year called the Rising Sun- With EW Soviet , Japanese and Finns…

Does it include a Chinese list? Otherwise, the EW Japanese list will not be worth much.

I think it is Soviet vs Japanese and Soviet vs Finn.

Snore……..

I always wanted to do Finns vs Chinese.

Interesting. Now I'll have an excuse to put together the KNIL.

Isn't this what people have been clamouring about for years? That BF get into the Pacific war? Well, here's the start!

While the lack of Chinese might be an omission worthy of revisit, Japanese vs Soviets would be an interesting game, and I'm not so sure Chinese would sell well (though all they'd really need are some infantry kits, some early Vickers 6-ton tanks and CV33s…there are already SdKfz.221s).

Damon.

I always wanted to do Finns vs Chinese.

Hopefully on a North African or Normandy 1944 themed board.

All kidding aside, this will give us the EW goodness we have "all" been clamoring for. Well, maybe not all…

We can see how well BF has covered that well known Panzer battlefield, Vietnam. Can we expect any less?
All the weird and wonderful BT tank series.
All the Japanese tanks.
All of which will be used as Barbarosa or Philippines tanks.

Mind you, I am NOT paying BF $12.50 USD per tank, and will be taking a keen eye on Gaming Models, Zvezda, etc.

If it's a back door the FoW PAcific, I have no problem with that. Every tangent nailed down that contribute is welcome.

As for lacking Chinese, to how many will tht matter? Kalkhin Gol has fascinated far metro gamers than the Rape of Nanking. We all know, or think we know, about it, and it is probably on quite a few "If only someone made figures…" back burners.

I'll buy the book, and probably buy the figures from Zvezda, Command Decision, Gaming Models…

Blitzkrieg didn't have Dutch but there is a PDF available, so we might see one for KNIL. H&B has the EW Brits for the desert but you will have to limit the armour. I should imagine Indians might be the way to go for Malaya with compulsory HMGs and mortars despite visibility issues in the jungle.

Poiter50, you do realise that any Commonwealth forces cover a mere 24 days of potential fighting (8/12/41 – 31/12/41)?

Furthermore by the looks of it Japanese lists will be mid-1939 specific (i.e. Kalkhin Gol), not late 1941.

Eureka does a great line of 15mm Chinese.

This is the book that JP announced back in January was going to be pushed back into next year due to the 6 months of Vietnam Releases, and the re-introduction of the updated books for D-Day.

So don't hold your breath, or get your hopes all up!! Besides, why would they release a book for which they have no figures or vehicles in production, or ready to release to support said book!!

You'll probably see an updated print of the "Dust" rules before you see this book!! Yawn!!!!!

The BF Indians are in long trousers which is wrong for Malaya. Better to use 8th army and paint as Indian troops in the Brit helmet.

For Malay a you can have three Commonwealth forces
The Indian Division which does have British units.
QRF now do the appropriate Lanchester 6 wheel armoured car for use with the Argylls. Its a cool piece. The Indian div could also have India pattern wheeled carriers.
The Australians.. good troops , but no armour at all. Use 8th army and desert Australians all in shorts

The British division that landed in time to fight at Singapore only.

The first two would have green vehicles and a mix of 18/25v per guns (in green) and the latter would have desert sand vehicles and guns because they were intended for the Middle East. I think Marmon Herringtons ad Light tank Mark VI came with them, though the Mark VIs may have diverted to the Dutch Indies.
All the above had Bren Carriers which the Japanese counted as 'tanks', though mo match for the Japanese tanks .

FoW is all about tanks. (Look what they did to Viet Nam.) Early Pacific has tank battles. Nuff said.

Plenty of options to game in FoW Vietnam without tanks. Likewise, one would have to expect that you'll be able to feield and play plenty of forces from this new Rsining Sun book without tanks to your heart's content.

What did BF "do" to Vietnam besides release some very nice armored models? Their Nam book clearly and correctly states that there were almost no armor on armor battles until after the US left. Then there were a good many as the North invaded the South in strength.

Players can do whatever they choose, of course, but gamers have played "what-ifs" and hypotheticals as long as there has been tabletop wargaming and that sort of thing isn't Battlefront's fault in any way.

Once this comes out….what will we complain about then?

I am sure we will think of something.
How about "No Barbarossa!"

>The Australians.. good troops , but no armour at all.

Ahem:
Australian Tank Deployment
link

Not on par with the tanks in Europe, and most of it mid to late war, but if you are looking for some Australian steel…

I think the poster was specifically referring to the Malayan campaign though, where the only 'armour' used by Australian was the odd bren carrier.

ThomasHobbes, yes I realise the short period of fighting but there were probably more relatively large scale actions in that 24 days than in some other periods.

For Malaya actions, basically only Lanchester armoured cars and/or Universal Carriers. For the Dutch East Indies, there were some Dutchmen Light Tanks and some Marmon Herrington Light Tanks as well as some armoured cars and local manufacturer armour plated vehicles and I believe some British Light tanks saw action there as well.

It sounds to me as if the Rising Sun book will only cover pre 1941 conflict forces, so a bit sad but worth lobbying for a follow up book.

The Australians also used Wheeled Armoured Carriers, India Pattern, in Malaya, while the Indians also had some, along with some Marmon-Herrington armoured cars (though the Indian Recce was mainly used as motor infantry).

100th Independent Squadron RAC in Singapore had Mk VI Lights, with a handful of Mk IV Lights. Another squadron was on the way from 3rd(?) Hussars, but they were diverted to Java, where they served under ABDA.

As Poiter says, any models good for 1941 will also be good for the continued fighting through 1942 in Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, Papua New Guinea and Burma. Also don't forget Hong Kong in 1941.

As for organisations and army lists – there was precious little difference between Japanese organisations and equipment in 1941 compared to 1945.

There are more than a few gamers in China itself – I wouldn't write off the demand for Chinese armies. Half of the TV shows over here are wild-eyed Anti-Japanese War dramas (though I hope Battlefront leaves the Dragunovs and Uzis out of their portrayal of the War of Resistance . . . )

For those of you who are interested in this massive theatre, (where the war began and where it ended, by the way) there is some hope:

Guomindang German-Trained Division:

Infantry: Early-war German (or maybe Finns!), probably Battlefront. Stahlhelm are correct, uniforms are essentially identical (Actually, security guards still wear 1930s-German-style uniforms today in the winter . . .). Field caps can have the top "point" clipped or filed to make the flatter field caps seen in China.

Armor (cheaper alternatives for relatively common vehicles):
Miniarons Panzer I's
Zvezda 222's
Of course other companies make all sorts of Early-war German gear.

Note your tank can't attack tanks: 37mm AT and 20mm autocannons are as good as it gets vs tanks. Good thing you're only up against the Japanese . . .

[And, Japanese players: you finally get to play your Ha-Go's as though they were real tanks!]

And, the bonus: the German-trained divisions were finally committed in the defense of Shanghai. You may already have terrain for Shanghai, since so much of the city was built in European styles. Throw together houses from France, Italy, and Germany, and you'll get a perfect Shanghai battlefield. Really, even now you could probably find a square km of old SH with no Chinese-style buildings. It was even more dramatically European back then.

@pigasuspig: I'm actually going to use BF Hungarians for my German-trained Chinese. They'll need some modelled or painted-on puttees, but the uniforms otherwise look very similar, even down to the breast pocket flaps.

Eureka do perfectly nice Chinese. Minifig WW1 Austrians and Germans fit the bill too.

6 months of Vietnam Releases,?????
Are they completely nuts?

Yes they are completely nuts because they have given their competitors a chance to promote to WW2 buffs. Similarly, not producing a basic Pacific set a few years ago was nuts.
On the other hand it is a good example to those who believe that BF are some sort of evil empire that actually they are fallible and human.

Where is this information regarding WI308, I googled it and didn't find anything.

Try WWPD:

link

Look a few posts down on the thread.

Really if you want to keep up with the latest and greatest of what's going on in the FoW world you can hardly do better than WWPD. Case in point; this thread was posted here on 20 May 2013. The WWPD thread on the same subject preceded it by four days.

Cheers, VB

I'll dig out my French and play Indo China just to be a contrarian. France/VietNam vs. Japan. Domo…domo!

4th Armoured Brigade (with Stuarts) was also sent from Egypt (straight off the Crusader battlefield) to Burma and fought in '42. 70th British Infantry division (which had defended Tobruk during Crusader) was also sent to India – and some of its units went on to form the core of the Chindits. 5th Indian Division arrived in India from the middle east soon after.

There were some cool infantry units too. A commando platoon in Burma, 1st Burma Division, Malay troops and volunteers (mostly planters) in Malya, 2 weakened Indian Divisions in Malaya (9th and 11th) and one in Burma (17th) and 2 Brigades of 8th Australian Div + as you noted the ill-fated 18th British Division (which was a second line TA division en route to Egypt – where it would have undergone training to bring it up to scratch, but was diverted to Singapore and promptly lost. 2 additional Indian Brigades were also sent to Singapore to bring the Indian Corps up to strength and also lost. With hindsight would have made much more sense to send all these reinforcements to India/Burma.

Also some antiquated stuff like 3" AA guns, 18lbers as well as some odd aircraft like F2 Buffalos and Vickers Vildebeests and even a few Kiwi Harvards pressed into service in ground attack – as well as RAF Blenheims and RAAF Hudsons.

"FoW is all about tanks."

It is just a pitty, that tanks don't win many comps…

I am looking forward to this mainly cause it is EW and that is where the war was cool (as long as you weren't in it) cause all the equipment sucked. Makes for interesting games.

The nice thing about EW is that tanks FEAR anti-tank rifles.

OK- I'll be the one to complain.

After seeing Barbarossa put back for years, when they (Battlefront) finally announce that they are doing an Early-War Eastern Front book this year, they reverse their previous stance and introduce the Japanese? Really?
Yes, I get it- some people have been waiting for the Japanese for a decade. BF apparently had no plan to offer them. I don't have an issue with them doing Japanese.
My issue is with them- again- telling those of us who are interested in Barbarossa that we are, essentially, worthless.
For example, they already have most of the models and troops they need in order to do Barbarossa. They even used to produce T28 and T35 models, as well as T26 and the BT's. They could have included Barbarossa with a minimal outlay for new figures, packaging, and marketing, but instead have chosen to produce an entirely new national force. This will cost them a lot more, and will also cause retailers to make even more room to carry the line- a new nation means more shelf or wall space for displays.
While I am glad to see the information for the Finns and Poles, as well as the Soviets that they did include, if they were going to do the Pacific Theater why didn't they just do it- instead of knocking actual Eastern-front material out of the only book we will get this year?
OK- rant over. But I'm still mightily cheesed off.
Patrick

I think Barabarrossa and in particular larger scale employment of KV-1/-2 and T-34 causes some headaches for BF, hence Barbarossa is delayed.

Just my $0.02 USD.

I think Barabarrossa and in particular larger scale employment of KV-1/-2 and T-34 causes some headaches for BF.

Yet they have no problem with tanks that saw limited, or no employment in WW2 ?
LES

It's an issue of numbers and statistics.

A KV-1 is nearly undefeatable in FOW EW. Front Armour 8 is impregnable to nearly all AT systems in period except for stupidly expensive artillery ala K-18 or Flak 36 and not everyone has access to these. And there's no pinning or mobility/mission kill mechanisms that would allow weaker weapons some slim chance of taking it out.

Whilst the KV's stats are based on historical values, it doesn't fit FOW modus operandi: "all books are roughly balanced between each other." This is obviously done from tourmanent perspective which is fair enough.

Hence you'll have a Russian KV sit on an objective, nearly completely impervious to Polish, French, Japanese etc.

Though apparently that already happens with Matilda companies in EW anyway. :p

Meanwhile the fantasy tank has stats that easily incorporate into the game scheme.

Some info here

"…the next extension for Flames of War, which will introduce the Japanese army.
In this issue of Wargames Illustrated we read three articles about it : a history of Japanese tanks, the designer's notes and a scenario about the Nomonhan battle between Soviet and Japanese armies.
It is commercially brave to present a new army via a defeat and a illustration cover that also goes in this direction.
The Japanese army is historically difficult to play : tanks are weaks and the tactics too rigid…"

link

link

Amicalement
Armand

Hence you'll have a Russian KV sit on an objective, nearly completely impervious to Polish, French, Japanese etc.

Uh…..
You are speaking about "fantasy tanks". What about "fantasy scenario"?

Too bad they didn't do this 4 years ago when I cared what was going on with Flames of War. Oh well, I wish them the best with this attempt.

Id be interested in it for NOMONHAN!