"Who Are You Calling a Punk?" Topic

For me, it started with Cyberpunk. I wasn't big into Punk music, but reading William Gibson's "Neuromancer" (1984) sort of blew my doors off. Later on (1991), Gibson would write "The Difference Engine", in collaboration with fellow Cyberpunk Bruce Sterling. It was an alternate-history story, set in Victorian times. Given who wrote it, it was more or less inevitable that it would be called "Steampunk".

The Steampunk aesthetic took time to grow, but it seems finally to have arrived. It has its own progeny, Dieselpunk. Now, I'm not really sure where Dieselpunk came from. It seems not to have any literary roots, unless one counts the original pulp stories of the 1920s – '30s.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the term "Cyberpunk". It is of its own time, and after thirty years of use, isn't likely ever to be called anything else. I am less thrilled with "Steampunk", because so much of it has drifted from the "Punk" ethos (actually, it wasn't so clearly defined to begin with). For "Dieselpunk" there is no excuse. To me, calling it that just seems lazy. I do like the aesthetic, but prefer to call it "Retro-Futurist", or better, "Neo-Pulp". I know, nothing is going to change, but thank you for reading.

Ron

P.S. Evidently, the word "punk" existed in the 16th century. It didn't mean what I thought it would:

link

Yes, I had always heard the word punk used meaning the slow burning wood stick. Used to say I was lighting the fireworks using a punk stick.

I hate the word "punk" as it is applied to wargames.
All it means is visible gears and corsets.
It is invariably dumb looking.

Punk applied to music is awesome though….

Punk also used to be used for prostitute:

punk "prostitute, harlot, strumpet," first recorded 1590s, of unknown origin.
(link)

Which leads us back to exposed corsets…

Steampunk. Cool.

1970s and 1980s punk-very cool!

I hate the word "punk" as it is applied to wargames.
All it means is visible gears and corsets.
It is invariably dumb looking.

Not just wargaming:

YouTube link

Punk applied to music is awesome though…

Often so – but personally I like Abney Park as much as the Dead Kennedys (gad, I'm old), so steampunk isn't all bad.

70's musicians weren't happy to be called punks as it was a term for jailed guys who took it up in the butty…

Harry Callahan: I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

YouTube link

In terms of the youth cub culture, it was just a word we used at the time.

I recall seeing it used on US TV shows like Kojak (and of course Dirty Harry) around the same time, but it had a different context and I never really connected it with what we were wearing or listening to.

iirc it looked it up in the OED at the time and it had the firewood/kindling definition as well as one relating to worthless rubbish.

"(gad, I'm old)"

Aren't we all:) Amusingly we really are the future now of course.

I don't think the "Prostitute" meaning ever went away.
In prison slang a "punk" is/was someone who takes the "receiver" role, often involuntarily. It still has that connotation in Ghetto slang where "punked" means means to be taken advantage of and a "punk" is someone who can't take care of themselves and takes whatever abuse folks give them.

Which leads to the popular use of "punked" now as interchangeable with "pranked".

The use of Punk for rebel, independent, certain style of rock, fashion, etc, is just folks taking in insult and reclaiming it as a badge of honor. Albeit a useage that is now possibly the most widely used.

Yes, semantics… which is important. Word meanings change: often from conotation to denotation. 'Punk' can now be used as a variety of adjectives, with meaning modified by context.

I do have to agree with the OFM, however, in the sense that the word is being used to describe things with no real connection to any of it's understood uses (although with enough time this could change… although I doubt it given the size and impact this niche useage). This is rather dim and unimaginative, but so is putting rivets and corsets on everything to make it 'kewl'….