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"Is there any basis in reality for this? " Topic


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deephorse17 May 2013 12:46 p.m. PST

I'm new to the ACW period but reasonably familiar with Napoleonic wargaming. A set of ACW rules we are trying gives a bonus for the first volley fired by a unit, regardless of what type of shoulder arm it is. Incidentally, the basic unit is a regiment.

At first I didn't question this, because it's been present in more than one set of Napoleonic rules that I've used. But a re-enactor friend questioned the point when he saw us playing recently. It might be that the first round loaded into a smoothbore musket outside the heat of battle will be ‘correctly' done, whilst subsequent hastily loaded balls will be ‘suspect'. But if you are using percussion caps what is there to go wrong?

Now, the first volley from a smoothbore being the ‘best' volley might also be due to the fouling that occurs with each subsequent shot. But won't a rifled musket be susceptible to fouling too? Not if a Minie ball is used it appears.

So I'm starting to wonder if this bonus for the first volley from rifled muskets is justified. Is there any basis in fact for it?

Thanks.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2013 1:00 p.m. PST

Muskets can be improperly loaded, they can be loaded too many times, the ram rod can be shot out with the round, percusion caps require manual dexterity to quickly and efficiently put them on the nipple, which is going to decline when someone is trying to kill you, etc.

vtsaogames17 May 2013 1:02 p.m. PST

Not an expert, but I think any muzzle-loaded weapon is best loaded slowly while not under pressure. If the charge, wad and round are not properly seated the shot will not be optimal. I don't see it as an issue of smooth-bore vs. rifle but of muzzle-loaders with flintlock vs. percussion cap. It is true that percussion caps cut down the rate of misfire, but I think first volley advantage has to do with the rounds being seated properly too.

I have fired black powder muzzle loaders, enough to convince me that I should stick to 20th century ammo or later. I'm not the sort who should have packets of explosive powder in my pockets.

Bill N17 May 2013 1:06 p.m. PST

My theory is that all things being equal there is some merit to the "first volley is better" idea. Vision is less likely to be obscured by smoke, officers are better able to exercise fire control and troops were more likely to have loaded their weapons carefully. The number of weapons picked up after Gettysburg with multiple charges clearly indicates that even with percussion caps you still have problems.

The difficulty is that far too often things were not equal.

vojvoda17 May 2013 1:09 p.m. PST

Also it is a factor of fouling of the barrel through powder build up.

VR
James Mattes

doc mcb17 May 2013 1:12 p.m. PST

It is not so much the care taken in loading -- though that is a factor -- as it is the number of men who actually fire their weapon.

zippyfusenet17 May 2013 1:12 p.m. PST

What they all said.

Besides, a first fire bonus makes the player think twice about throwing away his first fire outside of effective range. That's a good thing. Ammunition depletion rules are good for that too.

Timmo uk17 May 2013 1:28 p.m. PST

I guess the +1 could be considered to take into account the fact that smoke obscures vision after the first volleys. Just a suggestion.

deephorse17 May 2013 1:33 p.m. PST

It is not so much the care taken in loading -- though that is a factor -- as it is the number of men who actually fire their weapon.

Are you suggesting that more men will fire in the first volley of the day than in subsequent ones?

14Bore Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2013 1:40 p.m. PST

There is a statistic for Gettysburg how many rifles were found loaded, loaded with two rounds and how many were found with more.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP17 May 2013 1:41 p.m. PST

My big issue with this is time scale. If a turn represents a few minutes, fine. My beef is when a turn represents 20-30 minutes ad you still get a first fire bonus. Even at a desultory pace you'd get off at least 20 volleys in that time.

I'm fine if the rationale is to prevent worthless extreme range volleys, but even then, it only applies to one volley/unit. Ammo rules or limiting fire to effective range are better ways to deal with this issue.

zippyfusenet17 May 2013 1:42 p.m. PST

Are you suggesting that more men will fire in the first volley of the day than in subsequent ones?

Sounds reasonable to me.

After the first volley of a fire-fight, some guys will be dealing with misfires, some will be fumbling the reloading drill, some will shoot off their ramrods, etc.

Of course if the battalion withdraws from the fight and everyone cleans up and carefully reloads, then you might justify giving the battalion a second 'first fire' bonus when they go back into combat. But that rarely happens in the context of a wargame.

Martin Rapier17 May 2013 1:54 p.m. PST

It might also be a valid way of modelling whether a unit is 'fresh' or not.

deephorse17 May 2013 3:16 p.m. PST

Some pretty good points coming out here, and things I hadn't thought of. I might just stick with that bonus. Thanks.

Cerberus031117 May 2013 3:19 p.m. PST

At a reenactment many moons ago when I was younger and much more able boddied, we were engaged in quite a hot firefight with the Mudsils. I remember our first volley went off quite smoothly and then we were, as usual, commanded to fire at will. After firing several more times we maneuvered and in the process ceased fire. After clearing a small hill my platoon was sent forward as skirmishers.

After firing several more times I popped up to rush forward and looked right at a musket discharged right at me. With it being a warm day and the grass being soft I took this as a sign to take a hit. Soon after that we withdrew and the "battle" ended. We returned to camp and then loaded the tin baggage wagons for the two hour ride home.

Once I got home I put on a large pot of water to clean my musket. I used the funnel to pour the boiling water down the barrel and no water came out of the nipple of my musket! I turned it up pouring out not that much water and proceeded to pull seven cartridges out of the rifle. At some point I had fouling in the nipple and never realized that with each cap firing that my musket wasnt discharging. Add to that a two hour ride in the trunk of a car with a tampion , used to keep water out, in the muzzle.

Add to that misfires as I was loading from overheating, embers left behind, ect. Or just trying to handle a musket after about four shots on a hot day and you slow your rate of fire way down.

Bonus for first shots, you bet. It might be the only time that the firing line will deliver its weight of fire at one time.

McLaddie17 May 2013 3:31 p.m. PST

It was the accepted view from the SYW through the Civil War that the first volley [or first few] were the most effective for the following reasons:

1. The weapon was probably loaded with as much care as can be expected, and that would rapidly degrade as troops started firing independently [termed battle fire]after the first few volleys. As mentioned, at Gettysburg, thousands of rifles were found [IIRC 4,000] loaded multiple times and then discarded as useless.

2. After the first few volleys, producing maximum effect, fire became independent, and thus less instantly devestating… i.e. weaker in the short run and more attritional.

2. Smoke. We seldom see the amount of smoke 600 men volleying with black powder weapons can produce. Any number of accounts speak of not seeing the enemy at all after several minutes of a firefight. Albuera, The Iron Brigade vs the Stonewall Brigade the day before 2nd Manassas among others. These were standup firefights within 60 yards of each other over at least a twenty to thirty minute period. You'd think they'd have killed everyone. The Iron Brigade commander called a halt to firing simply to see what kind of damage had been done…and to see if the Rebels were still there.

3. The kick of the weapons. After the first several shots, any number of soldiers wouldn't aim, but fire the weapon away from their shoulder. [creating other kinds of pain…]

4. Once involved in independent fire, soldiers would stop firing rapidely because they didn't have targets in the smoke, but wait for something to shoot at. Most times, this would be very temporary, lasting only a few seconds, but such hesitations would add up over a regimental-sized unit.

There are lots of contemporary narratives and treatises to support all this.

Bill

TKindred17 May 2013 4:02 p.m. PST

Keep in mind that the manuals stress that the standard means of delivering fire upon the enemy is via "Firing by Files". It was common to fire a volley by company, then to continue the fire by "Firing by Files" until the command to "Cease Fire" was given.

Even with a smaller unit of, say, 300 men, the frontage was still great enough that battalion volleys were difficult to exercise, and impossible once battle was joined. Even taking into consideration that orders were delivered via bugle instead of voice, once battle was joined, "Firing by File" was the only efficient means of delivering, and especially controlling, fire.

As Extra Crispy points out, if the time scale is a few minutes/turn, then a bonus would be fine. Larger(greater?) time scales would seem to me to preclude such a bonus.

As a side note, once the Federal army began to issue the Williams Cleaner bullet, the issue of fouling became moot. When combined with contemporary accounts of the ease of picking up weapons from the wounded and dead across the fields, fouling wasn't near the problem as some would have us think.

V/R

EJNashIII17 May 2013 4:32 p.m. PST

The cleaner bullet wasn't really a cure. They had a nasty habit of breaking off in the barrel and adding to the fouling problem.

Really, it isn't fouling as much as loss of command/control. Unless the troops are very high quality, their rate of fire will slow appreciably after the first few rounds. If you are firing, you are likely taking fire as well. Watching your friend's head explode all over your shirt sort of takes the wind out of you. Seeing the enemy's head do the same to their pards does much the same thing to you. Firing by volley magnifies this shock effect as it happens many times all at once.

Firing by file only makes things more complicated for the individual soldier and the NCOs. The idea being they need to concentrate on what they are doing rather than focusing on the gore around them. In addition, the approaching enemy must face a near continuous flow of bullets. However, the idea of fire by file assumes the men will break down to firing at will. At this point, the rate drops again, but at least a near steady stream of bullets are going down range.
Casey's manual directly states the men should just go ahead and fire at will after the initial fire by file.

TKindred17 May 2013 5:34 p.m. PST

I used the term "Fire by File" with the understanding that most folks knew that the soldiers automatically went to "Fire at Will" after their initial round.

The Williams patent cleaner bullet was quite effective at it's job. I've fired them and they scrape a huge amount of fouling out. The key is to remember to use one after every 4 rounds. The Army recognized this through trials and had two packed with each bundle of 10 rounds. The problem with the round was not so much it breaking in the barrel as it's much increased kick due to the expanding sabot effect. The soldiers really disliked this, and the Army made it easier for the men to discard them by wrapping the cleaner bullets in either light blue or green paper, vice the ordinary color for regular rounds.

I don't see how firing by file and then firing at will makes things more complicated for either the soldier or his NCO's. The men begin their fire with their file mate, then switch to fire at will. They continue firing at will until they either expend their ammunition, are wounded, or the cease fire is sounded. I've never had a problem in the field with this, and actually prefer it to sustained volleys by company.

V/R

doc mcb18 May 2013 7:58 a.m. PST

Part of what I had in mind was SLA Marshall's material on % of men who actually engage the enemy with fire. Marshall's methodology has been criticized but there may be something to his theory nonetheless.

Wiki:

Marshall's work on infantry combat effectiveness in World War II, titled Men Against Fire, is his best-known and most controversial work. In the book, Marshall claimed that of the World War II U.S. troops in actual combat, 75% never fired their personal weapons at the enemy for the purpose of killing, even though they were engaged in combat and under direct threat. (Later research has cast doubts on his methods, but research into killing ratios of other wars, including the U.S. Civil War, has supported this claim.)[citation needed] Marshall argued that the United States Army should devote significant training resources to increase the percentage of soldiers willing to engage the enemy with direct fire.

donlowry18 May 2013 9:56 a.m. PST

Smoke.

Kilkrazy21 May 2013 6:12 a.m. PST

Preparation of the first round, increasing fatigue, smoke, jammed weapons, mounting casualties, all add up to a unit's shooting being best at the start and declining throughout an action.

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