"6mm Scifi Plastic Armies Crowdfunder" Topic

I'll let the Indiegogo page explain what's going on in detail, but basically, we think it's time someone made a new foray into 6mm scifi plastics!

link

I'm intrigued about why you've used Indiegogo instead of Kickstarter?

Mike

There was a bit of a mixup when we thought KS was still not allowing UK companies to use it. :-)
It seems a reputable enough system though.

Bit weird to be running 2 crowdfunding campaigns at the same time; or have you given up on the 28mm one?

Yeah the 28mm one we started a few weeks ago and it's barely gone anywhere – it isn't likely to hit its target so the cash is going to be returned to the pledgers if there's no more movement soon. If it does start moving again, the models are all sculpted and ready to go, fulfilling that campaign won't detract from our 6mm campaign, or vice versa.

The 6mm plastic one however has made it over 50% in just 2 days, we're pretty confident on making it to target and beyond with this one.

That is cos 6mm rules baby!

GL sir.

6mm plastics, now there is a new level of madness.

Jaz
revolutionaryroads.com – Affordable wargaming road system for your tabletop

Not new really, GW did that ages ago…

I'm in for 1 army box. I'm a 15mm gamer / starship gamer, so 6mm is a new scale for me. A while back, Angel Barracks kindly sent me a free infantry squad, and that kind of planted the seed in my head.

I'll see how I like it.

The GW ones were really nice

Yeah GW used to make some 6mm plastics, they don't sell them anymore though.

Sorry, but this stuff is far too fci-fantasy for me.

If you were to preview some 6mm hard/gritty sci-fi stuff in 6mm that would be a different matter.

Good luck with your project.

I agree with collins355, but I am in for 1 army box anyway. :)

Not keen on the 'not Orks' and mixing vehicles and infantry on the same sprue. What if I like the vehicles and not the infantry or vice versa? I end up not buying.
I'd be more interested in grittier SF along the lines of GZG, Khurasan, Rebel, Critical Mass etc.
Good luck.

Very best of luck to you but two random squads on a single sprue may not be the best way of marketing your product.

Firstly I would personally suggest independant forces so you buy what you need, maybe more options per force, per sprue.

Secondly if you are going the gothic sci fi route, ok, but think the current money is in the hard tech option.

These are merely personal observations, please ignore if you do not agree. As i said at the start though, best of luck in your venture.

Where is this sculpted?

Define – "hard/gritty sci-fi" or "hard tech" ? Hammer's Slammers ?

@Legion 4:

Christopher Nuttall – The Empire Corps
Jay Allan – Crimson WOrlds
Mark E. Cooper – Merkiaari Wars
John Lumpkin, Winchell Chung – The Human Reach
Edmond Barrett – The Nameless War
David Webber – anything :)

Troop actions based on modern warfare against other humans or plausible aliens. Troops act as a unit – not solo heroes. Weapons are logical extensions of current modern weapons, given increased tech.

That's my preference. The axe wielding aliens he currently has are not to my taste, but, that said, I'm still in for 1 army box.

I was initially very excited, both by the idea and by the news that it was from Troublemaker Games, whose 10mm and Victorian SF stuff I've admired for a while. But the actual digital sculpts are a little underwhelming. I can understand the reasons for the limited poses and combined human/alien sprues at this early stage, because making casts is very expensive and, for the basic goal, you just want the one mould.

But why are the human infantry pigeon-toed? And it's a little disappointing to see that the "humanoid aliens" are basically orks. I was hoping for something more imaginative. Even the humans are a little dull.

My immediate thought of "I must back this project" reduced rapidly to "I might bung a little money their way", but the lowest level of support is for a whole boxed set of 28 bases and 10 vehicles at £22.00 GBP. Don't get me wrong! The price point is just the way I like it. But why not offer the option to support you for just a single sprue? That way, when I get them in my hands and, if I like what I see, I can come back and buy some more at full retail.

Very best of luck to you but two random squads on a single sprue may not be the best way of marketing your product.

Firstly I would personally suggest independant forces so you buy what you need, maybe more options per force, per sprue.

Hi.

Here are some costings:

To create one sprue with the current mix of models on it : ~£5450

To create two separate sprues with the same models as we have currently created on them : ~£7300

To create a separate sprue of just bases : ~£800

To add a single extra sculpt type (let's say a human with a missile launcher) to the sprue a few times : ~£600

Note those are our costs, not the ammount we'd need pre-ordering. You can multiply those costs by two if you want to fund them through a kickstarter type of thing because you have to account for crowdfunding fees (about an 8% cut) and production & postage costs.

Perhaps that explains to you why we're starting with a single combined sprue, and if pledges go high enough we'll be splitting into multiple sprues.

Plastics are very expensive to invest in.

why not offer the option to support you for just a single sprue?

That's something we'd hope to open up once we're funded, but right now the average funding contribution is £37.00 GBP per person (and actually it's more like £45.00 GBP, because at least six people have pledged once, realised they'd forgotten to add £3.00 GBP international postage, then pledged a second time for just £3.00 GBP, dragging the average pledge amount down).

Honestly, I simply doubt that introducing a pledge point of £4.00 GBP + £2.00 GBP postage for a single sprue would help us achieve much, indeed we'd actually have to move the goalposts for funding targets further to the right by hundreds of pounds, because a greater proportion of our pledges would be taken up by postage fees, so it might even be counter-productive… *at this stage*.

Keep your eyes on the campaign though, because if we get funded to at least Stretch Goal #1 I think it's something we'd like to open up as a possibility (Individual sprue purchases, of either the Armies sprue or the Bases sprue).

Hope that helps explain our thinking about the pledge targets at this stage in the campaign.

As to the sculpts, they're not final, the humans in particular are going to get some cosmetic improvements.

Understand blooddave, I'm a big Slammer fan and have a decent 6mm Old Crow and GZG(NAC) Slammer TF. Still finishing up the one man skimmers now. I also have a huge collection of 6mm G/W-F/W … all races, DRM, Exodus Wars and a few others … So if I get you correctly, gritty/hard Sci-fi is basically anything that does not include the futuristic versions of the LoTR races (GW's Necrons, Tau and 'Nids not withstanding which are very futuristic, IMO ) … I have such an eclectic mix of forces as I look at it as it's a Big Universe. So green-skinned pointy eared hairless apes with ranged weapons and axes … fits in, in my mind. And looking at the sprues here, all the vehicles and the human infantry fit into the gritty/hard sci-fi, IMO … Not looking for an argument, just trying to understand, your definition … And in 6mm Epic/WH40 there are not any real rules for the "heroes" you mention. There are a few leadership rules for certain commanders. Which reminds me a bit like AH's original Squad Leader commander rules or Conflict's old Jerusalem game … Of course the rules are relative, you can use pretty much any minis with any rules like with FWC and Strike Legion come to mind. And recommended reading is Drake's Slammer series which have very, very few alien encounters, mostly human vs. human and Drake's Rank of Bronze. Which mixes hi-tech/gritty with low-tech … Like on Star Trek and Stargate not all planets will be at the same tech levels. Of course again my Big Universe paradigm works for me and always do what works for you … not me …

Nice idea. However, I feel that more variety and scope is needed (planned?)… also, as noted, the 'not Epic 40K' may gaurantee some sales, but a 'harder sci-fi' approach would probably generate more (This could be simply wishful thinking)… How about one sprue with basic and powered armor infantry and one sprue with a tank, a couple of APCs, and an artillery device? I know it's two sprues, but these would would provide the framework for all sorts of human vs human factions… or just do a couple sprues of infantry (all human) to start… that is the real open-spot in the 6mm market. Best of luck in any case.

If you're adding a second sprue, you could easily spend another £4,000.00 GBP-£5000 to do what you describe (we have several thousand pounds invested behind the scenes too). One thing at a time… if we can get the basics pledged, we'll add more options, more poses and characters etc….. and a power armour infantry sprue at some point in the future would be a good second crowdfunder if this one comes off well!

But first we need this humans vs. aliens sprue project to get funded, it's the basic starter point from which all else will flow. ;-)

Legion 4:

I get where you are coming from. I agree with you. It's just that "Orcs in space" always seemed cheesy to me. That has kept me away from the GW games.

That said, I'm currently painting a sci-fi orc and goblin team for Dreadball, so perhaps my resolve is weakening. :)

I see …

If your resolve is weakening, I know a 6mm line starting up, dead cheap, with great customer communcations… ;-)

That is true …

Just a little note to say we hit our initial funding target and are now chasing down stretch goals like the "Advanced" version of the sprue that gives everyone 20% more models for no extra cost!

Excellent result sir!
Go 6mil!!

Advanced Sprue is now funded, so we've opened up a whole load more pre-orders to celebrate!

Everybody dance now!

link

I definitely want some alien humanoid bikers!

From the latest Campaign Update:

INCOMING!

Here comes our biggest campaign update to date!

First of all, we'd just like to say thankyou for your continued support, without your financial backing this project would have failed at the first hurdle, and for that vote of confidence we can only be grateful.

Well, I suppose we could send you some toy soldiers, too…

Speaking of toy soldiers, here are our latest Product Additions, all of which are now available as Pledges:

Product Addition: Lancastrian Medium Bomber
They have a length of 7.3cm, and a wingspan of 9.1cm.

Product Addition: Beast Class Superheavy Mobile Bastion
They have a length of 6.1cm, and come with multiple configuration options of Transport, Laser Cannon, and Macro-Howitzer.

Product Addition: Heavy Guns Set
This set will contain two Infantry and IFV plastic sprues, 22x plastic bases, four Braveheart Artillery upgrades, two Alien Laser Cannons, and two Alien Macro-Howitzers.

All in all, a huge update, I think you'd have to agree!

As a final little tidbit, we've attached concept art for the "Ultimate" version of the Alien half of the plastic sprue. If we get enough funding, we'd like to add the extra sculpts and poses that can be seen on this sample sprue layout… indeed, we could think up a few more sculpt types we'd like to add too!

As ever, the final variety of figures found on the plastic Infantry & Vehicles sprue will be dependent on the level of funding we receive in this crowdfunding campaign.

Thanks for your time, your consideration, and your continued support.

- The Team @ Troublemaker Games

2x Lancastrians for £18.00 GBP

2x Beast Class Superheavies for £16.00 GBP (includes one of each superheavy weapon type)

4x Braveheart artillery, 2x Laser Cannon Flatbeds, 2x Macro-Howitzer Flatbeds, and 22x bases of plastic infantry, for £22.00 GBP

Wow !!! Nice AFV designs !

And now there's a Pledge available for "half sprues" so that you can receive just the plastic Aliens or the plastic Humans, whichever is your favourite!

Okay, see now *that* might get me to pledge, as all I want are the Orks.

Just looked again. I want to support this, but 27 British Pound Sterling equals 42 dollars USD! For six sprues, really three because I want the orc halves.

Usually kickstarters give some kinda discount to ordering.

Is there something I'm missing, or are they really this much? I thought plastic was supposed to bring DOWN the cost of figures. This seems more expensive that what Epic stuff goes for on ebay.

Is there something I'm missing, or are they really this much?

As we said to you on Dakka, you're going to pay £50.00 GBP or more for the same amount of models from any other 6mm scale scifi company out there right now.

This seems more expensive that what Epic stuff goes for on ebay.

If you can buy old 6mm scale models cheaper second hand on eBay, and you're happy with that, then feel free to buy second hand… but no company in the world can price themselves to compete with a second hand market.

27 British

25, actually.
And that includes UK postage.

As I said over on Dakka, I don't think you appreciate what the going rate is for 6mm scifi, and how dramatically cheaper our offerings are.

Nicely run campaign thus far, TMG. However, regarding the costing-scheme you mentioned above: if you are talking about the £25.00 GBP "Box of just…" I don't really believe that "you're going to pay £50.00 GBP or more for the same amount of models from any other 6mm scale scifi company out there right now".

In fact, I can match the £25.00 GBP price point using Brigade Models, for example, and just overshoot using C-in-C in the US and GZG. I could probably do better if I put more than a few moments' thought into it. And while it is true that you are including infantry bases into your tallies (and rightly so since you are producing and providing them!), I am not simply because with the others, bases are not being paid for that might well not be used.

Now, I am not trying to start a flame-war or denigrate your coming success (which is a result of the labors you have put forth already). I don't really have a dog in this fight one way or the other, but I don't think 12 AFVs and 168 infantry figures (based on the descriptions on your Indiegogo page) is equal to £50.00 GBP "from any other 6mm scale scifi company out there right now".

Regardless, I wish you the best of success and think that those that are pledging are getting a fine deal indeed!

Including postage, I'd be surprised if you could get much that compares well unless we're talking about some pretty small one-piece vehicles (ours are fairly large especially the alien flatbed).

Remember, we've also got six field guns / optional vehicle cannons in there too, just for extra spice. And yes, those bases add value too as you're talking resin or metal bases from most manufacturers (expensive, in other words).

We're also happy to swap out the bases sprues from the set, which ups the set to 280 infantry, 20 vehicles, and 10 field guns/vehicle cannon optionals, for the cost of the bases.

I offered that to Chris on Dakka, and he still said it sounded expensive. :-)

Well, I'm not going to split hairs--I have no qualms with what you have on offer. And I do not think you are overpriced; far from it, in fact.

But I merely wish to offer a counterpoint to whit you *can* get a comparable force for the table at your price-point. That is the gist of what I am trying to get at; no more and no less. As far as bases, one can go pretty low without having to resort to buying anything from any manufacturer. But what you offer is an attractive alternative to the pennies and electrical box knockouts that I prefer.

If you really want to know, though, one can get an equal metal of all-metal models (AFVs and infantry) that are roughly comparable in size for a similar price-point, delivered. Now, your choice of dropping the bases for additional models lessens this comparison substantially…but even so an identical offering from any of the companies I mentioned above will come in at the ~£30-35 mark (well, closer to 40+ for C-in-C, but those models are truly metal masterpieces that are seldom surpassed in the hobby). Again, not an even match by any means, but well under 50 quid.

I understand that size does matter when it comes down to pricing and manufacturing. However, as far as players are concerned, at the end of the day, a tank is a tank on the table unless there is a specific reason to think otherwise (think an Ogre or Bolo cybertank, for example). For further context, your tanks fall within the norms of human-crewed tanks so the numbers would [generally/within reason] have to be the same against another's when it came to an actual game (i.e. company-team versus company-team).

Having said all that, I am glad that your fund-raising is a success and I think you are staying on-point, involved, and offering what appears from afar to be a valuable product for a good price.

Alien cannons), and two sprues of plastic bases. That's 12x vehicles, and thirty-two bases of infantry.

So you can get enough stuff to make an entire starter force for £25.00 GBP and that includes postage?
Sounds like the ideal time to start 6mm sci-fi.

:D

Yep, postage included. :-)

And that is aliens and humans in the same box?

No, the mixed Aliens & Humans box is £3.00 GBP less, for £22.00 GBP :-)

Well that is bonkers good.

£22.00 GBP, a copy of many of the fine free 6mm PDFs and you can play 6mm sci-fi.

Presumably once the project is fulfilled and backers rewarded, the figures will be available from your webstore?

They will be – and they will also be available at trade prices to other 6mm companies who fancy also selling plastic 6mm scifi models.

From the latest Campaign Update:

Hello everyone!

And so the final week begins.

The last month has amazed us at every step, we are incredibly grateful for all the incredible financial support we've received so far.

We're currently dedicating all the funds we can from new pre-orders towards improving the plastic sprue (adding extra poses & sculpts), but that doesn't mean we can't offer a cool bonus stretch goal in the final week…

So, without further prevarication, hesitation, delaying, pontificating, mis-direction, concealment, waffle (etc)…

If we hit £8,000.00 GBP, every pledge of £45.00 GBP or more will receive one free infantry & IFVs plastic sprue, and every pledge of £90.00 GBP more more will receive two free plastic infantry & IFVs sprues.

Thankyou for your continued support!

FREE STUFF, WOOP!

link

my biggest issue is that it includes bases. I don't need them as I base separately. Can you have the box ex bases?

Yep!

Just email us as the campaign ends, and we'll send you a box of five infantry + IFV's sprues instead of a 3x/2x sprue combo box.