"DNA Indicates Minoan Origin" Topic

Europe's first advanced civilisation was local in origin and not imported from elsewhere, a study says….

link

Interesting stuff. But I wonder about the possible distinction between the native Cretans and the ruling class, which I have read in some places was composed primarily of immigrants from elsewhere. 37 bodies in a cave might be imported aristocrats, or they might be lower status natives. I'd be interested to hear about what sorts of grave goods were found in the tomb, etc. in order to try and infer something about the status of the dead.

Doug

Then why is the Linea A that diffrent from Linea B and other indoeuropean Languages ?

The population showed particular genetic affinities with Bronze Age populations from Sardinia and Iberia and Neolithic samples from Scandinavia and France…

The authors therefore conclude that the Minoan civilisation was a local development, originated by inhabitants who probably reached the island around 9,000 years ago, in Neolithic times.

9,000 years ago was pre-Indo-European expansion. The Scandinavian and French Neolithic was pre-Indo-European. Europe was inhabited before the coming of the Indo-Europeans.

One non-Indo-European population that survives in Europe is the Basques, who may once have lived in more of ancient Iberia. The Etruscans may have been another group of non-Indo-European speakers, who may have been related to early Aegean and Tyrhenian peoples, possibly to Sardinians (Shardana/Sherden).

I think we still can't read Linear A, so we don't know what language it is.

But I wonder about the possible distinction between the native Cretans and the ruling class, which I have read in some places was composed primarily of immigrants from elsewhere.

It appears that Mycenaeans took over Crete after the Minoan collapse. The Mycenaeans were Greek-speakers, so Indo-European. Their records were in Linear B.

The Peleset/Pelishtim(/Pelasgians?) are called 'the remnant of Caphtor'. Caphtor = Crete. They brought Aegean pottery to the coast of Canaan. After settling their Pentapolis, they assimilated and took up the local Semitic language. It would be very interesting to learn what language they spoke at the time they migrated.

Very good argument Zippyfusenet! I tend to disbelieve the whole Adam & Eve in Africa theory of human development anyway. The diversity in human beings tends to indicate parthenogenesis to me.

The Greek/Mycenean era in Crete is almost documented, yet there was a flourishing culture there before that time.

I feel a lot of early twentieth century and late nineteenth century archaeologists, even up to Leakey; were more concerned with trying to make human pre-history fit the Bible than discover the truth.

But then I once wrote an essay espousing the idea that the five groups of The Sea Peoples in Egypt were actually the tribes of the Five Nations Confederacy. It's not far philologically from Ekwesh to Iroquois!

I was actually thinking of such a distinction pre-Mycenaean conquest, but it's entirely possible I'm mixing up my eras.

Doug

It's not far philologically from Ekwesh to Iroquois!

Touche.

There are a number of Native American words surviving, especially here in the Philadelphia area, that are tantalizingly similar to words found in Peleset, Meswesh and other Bronze Age cultures.

Nick, I love ya bro, but we don't even know what language(s) most of the Sea Peoples spoke.

As spontoon was teasing me above, random words in different languages (seperated by > 3000 years and continents and oceans of geography!) that sound kinda alike happen a lot and mean very little.

If all we had to go on was that Peleset sounds kinda like Pelishtim, that wouldn't be much. But we have Aegean pottery (not Early Woodland) from the Philistine Pentapolis, and Judean writings to supplement the Egyptian records. I think we're justified in drawing that connection. Others (/Pelasgians?) are more tenuous.

What's exciting about this news is that it rules out the Egyptians and other North Africans as progenitors of Minoan civilization, an idea that previously had some legs.

I am curious about North African influence on the early Mediterranean. I wonder, on no particular evidence, whether languages and cultures related to modern Berber/Amazigh once had wider currency in Malta, Sicily, Iberia. I wonder.

Irv,
Seriously, we have place names around here like Wyalusing, Manayunk, Passayunk etc. that look surprisingly familiar from Bronze Age names.

Those are beautiful old Indian names, Delaware I think. What Bronze Age names strike you as similar?