"Scale-specifc rules???" Topic

Hi all, was wondering if there is such a thing as a set of wargames rules that can only be used with a particular scale or size of figures eg 1/72nd, 28mm etc.

I guess skirmish games would be tricky with 2mm, but leaving that sort of thing out of it has anyone encountered any that can't be adapted between scales with a little tinkering?

No.

Same here, no.

No.

There are rules written for a specific scale but they can always be modified other scales.

It is striking that so many inquiries on TMP begin with that premise, though. I'll bet at least half of the "Rules Suggestions" threads start with something like:

"I'm looking for a set of rules for Ancients in 15mm…" or "Napoleonics in 6mm…"

Why do you think so many people believe that wargame rules are in fact scale-specific?

Maybe a lack of exposure to other scales and rules. Or possibly significant exposure to other rules that is only played in certain scales in certain areas (Everyone around here plays that in 25s; I didn't know it would work with 10s).

as idiaftLukhum says this is the sort of thing that's been bewildering me, glad to see I'm not alone!

Nope – I have used rules for minis with many scales

No.

But … a lot of people think inside the box (so put their requests very specifically in terms of the box they are thinking in) – also, it is 'The miniatures Page' and so includes people who often think of the figures they want to employ first … with the rules very much secondary.

My copy of Black Powder positions itself very squarely behind a 28mm assumption ('our choice is for the size stated'), and I think a lot of people are influenced by ploys like that. I say ploy because BP clearly derives from Warmaster, a 10mm game, and has a relatively abstract or high level feel not particularly suited to 28mm figures. Consequently it and its derivatives work really well with smaller scales and big group bases. Better really, as the optimal table sizes are easier to achieve with smaller figures.

And what 79thPA said …

Phil

A couple things.

One, it's amazing how many rules say they were designed for XXX size but you can use YYY scale if you change measurements or whatever. Mind you that makes no sense to me either. Really? A 12" range with 25mm figures should be changed if you shrink to a 15mm?

HOWEVER

In games with area effect weapons you have to adjust but in reality it the size of the bases that matters, not the figures.

Given that all rules are about ratios of game to reality you can always monkey with the ratios.

Sometimes it is a case of what is practical. I had a 6mm Napoleonic set back in 70s which required the use of individually based figures! It really didn't work as it was so fiddly.

Those sorts of things are exceptions though. I suspect that many times people have figures of a certain scale and just want to know what works well with them.

What people really mean when they say "This is a game for 28mm/6mm/15mm/whatever" is troop density on the table.

It is of course trivial to use whatever size of miniatures with any given set of rules. The only drawback might be practicality. It is not easy to move a single 2mm figure in a skirmish game, nor is it easy to move a 120-figure battalion of 54mm figures.

But troop density is something else.

I do think that many rules have some sort of notion of the ideal number of units on the table. Call it decision points one can use as a player. Let's say in an average game one has 10 independently acting units on the table.

Now, if we assume a standard table size of 180x120cm (6x4 feet)(and it's surprising how often rules do not mention what table size they are designed for – much more important IMO), this puts some limits om how big each independent unit can be in terms of actual footprint on the table. If you then couple this with some requirements for visual appeal, one reaches a decision where rules 'work best' with figures of a given size.

I always assumed that is what's really meant by 'designed for xx mm'. If a game is designed for 28mm, or designed for 15mm, I assume this means you can roughly put twice as many miniatures or units on the table for a visual pleasing game.

What is much more important to me are movement and firing ranges. Because that tells me what the size of table is I will need to play a particular ruleset.

It's an attitude I've seen mostly from ex-GW gamers.
I remember talking to one chap who simply could not understand why anyone would play Warmaster Ancients in anything other than 10mm scale. I pointed out that I wanted to use my existing 28mm ancients collection, but he couldn't understand why I'd want to do that.
Baffling.

With most rules the figures scale is so far out of whack with the ground scale that changing the figure scale while retaining bases only impacts the visuals of the game and nothing else.

Individually based 6mm figures is too fiddly but based on mass on the base sizes meant for 15 or 25mm and you have a really spectacular game for anything before the 20th century.

Interesting, since almost all games involve distorting distance. People who are used to 25mm figures and 12" musket range see that as "realistic". It's just what they are used to. In 25mm scale, 12 inches represents about 20 yards, point blank range. Effective musket range should be about 4 or 5 feet, scale 80-100 yards. Canister should be at least twice that and solid shot into the next room, perhaps the next apartment.

The only rules I'm aware of that can be played in "real" scale are the WWII rules "Crossfire" and "I Ain't Been Shot, Mum", both with about a company per side, providing you use 6mm figures.

What figures the rules are "designed for" is more of an issue if individual figures are counted or if basing is terribly important. Even then, a little math by the gamer can figure out how to modify basing, ranges and such.

A simple rule of thumb: the game specifies 25mm and you use 15mm? Shrink distances by 1/3, so 12 inch range becomes 8 inches, etc. Going the other way, from 15mm to 25mm, increase everything by 50%. So 8 inch range becomes 12 inches, etc.

If the game doesn't count figures, either modify ranges as above or use the same size bases with more figures.

Doing the latter, the figures will be engaged at closer to "real" distances, although still shooting at scale point-blank range. Hope that wasn't too confusing.

I've never understood the whole shrink 25mm ranges and base sizes for 15mm. Everything is scaled anyway so use the same but more figures per base seems just as correct.

I've never understood the whole shrink 25mm ranges and base sizes for 15mm.

Shrinking sizes for 15mm means you can play in a smaller area. Some of us don't have much space …