"Comfort Women "Necessary"?" Topic

An outspoken nationalist mayor said the Japanese military's forced prostitution of Asian women before and during World War II was necessary to "maintain discipline" in the ranks and provide rest for soldiers who risked their lives in battle…

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Blue Fezz material for my comments.

Absolutely disgusting.

Couldn't be more foul and dehumanizing if it tried, but how does this story tie in to minis gaming? Should Japanese troops in WW2 suffer morale penalties and desertion if they haven't been raping anyone lately? Shall we write scenarios for prisoner-release raids against the sex slave barracks? We could go more modern and have a "Hunt For Hashimoto" game at next Cold Wars where Toru is chased through the streets of Osaka by everyone who's out for his blood, and whoever castrates him first wins? Or how about a roleplaying game where the PCs are investigative reporters tracking down the organized crime money behind Toru's political party, the same crime dynasties that run the sex trade he's encouraging our GIs to frequent?

Blue Fez this thread. It's doomed, and deserves to die.

Agreed, kill this thread.

Just another reason not to game japs.

how does this story tie in to minis gaming?

History of WWII is a valid topic for discussion.

I agree with the Dear Editor on this.

Not only part of the history, but even a fair topic (though maybe indeed on the Blue Fez) regarding questions concerning Japan's not very heartening acceptance of its responsibility for the start and conduct of WW II in Asia.

Disgusting, Yes. Part of history, Yes. Responsibility fully accepted by Japan, NO.

TVAG

What minis do you use to game this?

So…organized rape was necessary, but using the bomb wasn't. Got it.

Thank the editor for bringing this up, I am finding much on this news page that politicians in all countries wish to re write the past, to show the current regime in a better light.

I do wonder about the failure to teach about the evil of Nazi Germany in Germany for fifty years – something about those who do not heed history are doomed to repeat it?

We play games that sanitise war. Sometimes we are reminded of that by articles such as the one The Editor posted. War is an ugly brutal thing and I think this topic is as valid a discussion as any. This Japanese mayor is an ultra-nationalist and is unapologetic about Japan's past.

So…organized rape was necessary, but using the bomb wasn't. Got it.

At least according to Oliver Stone's latest documentary.

I am legitimately torn about whether the Japanese or Germans were more vile in WWII.
I understand the atrocities happen. Modern US movies seem eager to show US executing prisoners or people trying to surrender (Band of Brothers and Private Ryan). Since there is no positive requirement to accept surrender, the Private Ryan sequence in the trenches early on is actually ok.
What distinguishes the axis powers was either the cold blooded planning – Warsaw and the Holocaust of the Nazis or the savagery that appeared to permeate the Imperial Japanese forces. The comfort women are an example of the Japanese cold bloodedly planning – on a large scale- brutality. I think it is instructive that while the movies during the war depicted the Japanese as brutal, once the depth of their depravity were know to allied leaders, that information was not widely disseminated and we moved into showing peacetime japan.

Dear Editor is not about to nuke a thread that he started, so quitcher bellyachin'.

Yes. Responsibility fully accepted by Japan, NO.

Not any time soon, either. Nor for Nanking…etc.
Which is why I am happy to sit on any apology for the Bomb.

What Ditto/Tim said, and what OFM said!

Oh, with a caveat of sorts; we don't ever have to apologize for the Bomb, regardless.

Russian weren't so nice either -raped most of Eastern Europe and Germany

In the campaign from Shanghai to Nanking, official Japanese Army policy was the "Three Alls": Kill All, Loot All, Burn All.

The purpose was to terrorize the Chinese into surrender. It didn't work, but did drive 90 million Chinese into flight as refugees. Think about that number for a minute. 90 million refugees. By the time the wars ended in 1950, it is estimated that half of all surviving Chinese had lost a primary relative: a parent, sibling, spouse or child.

We Americans have barely a clue what WWII was like in East Asia.

Not great wargaming subject but….I love all aspects of history the good and the bad. Every post has the possibility of infoming and adding to my knowledge so I agree it does merit discussion….Mikey

"…but using the bomb wasn't. Got it."

Which bomb? 50 lb., 100 lb., 500 lb., 1000 lb. – which one is small enough to keep you happy? All maimed, killed and blew up stuff. The smaller ones were dropped in bunches by many, many planes to combine their effect.

Conventional bombing and shelling campaigns had already created similar results throughout the war. It is a given that much or most of Japan would have suffered results similar to the use of "the bombs" thru conventional means. Killing and maiming hundreds of thousands of people with conventional munitions is the same as killing or maiming hundreds of thousands of people with the use of "the bombs."

War sucks. That is why you should never start one and never have to fight in or live through one.

Frankly I am amazed not one of the Allies declared war on Japan in 1937.

I'm not sure who is worse though. The evil practioner or the observer who allows the practioner to proceed unchallenged.

Willful ignorance and hiding behind excuses when tens of thousands are being systematically exterminated is a kind of thoughtless malice. Ironically, that paraphrased statement is from a Gundam anime.

When it comes to WWII, I am not sure anyone is completely clean. Russia helped itself to any and everything in the East and no one cared. Britain had early knowledge of Final Solution actions. France let Poland fry. The United States placated Japan even while Japan was driving all over Manchuria. Axis certainly were filth, but the fact remains the Allies allowed heinous acts to proceed to protect their so-called peace.

Peace comes at a price. Freedom isn't free. Armed Services rarely make the highest payments. Politicians will sacrifice any number of any resource to retain power.

Welcome to Earth.

The more you learn about its inhabitants, the more you want to leave the planet.

Let me see if I can convey a conversation about this on talk radio today. The commentator's take on this is the Japanese Government post WWII has not apologized in many ways on atrocity's done by the Imperial WWII Government.

I do wonder about the failure to teach about the evil of Nazi Germany in Germany for fifty years

A friend of mine grew up in Germany in the '70s (born in the late '60s). As a middle or secondary student they had to take a class on World War II. It seems to me she had to do it every year. One of the assignments they had to do was to interview a Jew (try finding one of those in a small German town) and a World War II vet among other things. Every year, every kid in school interviewed the same Jew – the only one in town, and she always interviewed her grandfather, who had been in the KM. The course may not have vilified Germany at large (I'm sure Hitler and his cronies were held solely responsible), but they sure learned about it and some of its effects.

And as far as the OP, I don't by they were necessary either. Obviously every other army in the world got along without them, why would the Japanese soldiers have been so much more of a discipline problem had the powers that be not given them that option?

What I really feel and think about this subject cannot be put on this forum.

As long as Japan does not accept responsibility for the heinous war crimes they committed, I celebrate the fact Japan was hit by two atomic bombs!
It it totally reprehensible Japan takes no responsibility for their actions but they look for sympathy. Japan was the aggressor and makes excuses for starting the war in Asia. There should be no apologies for the atom bombs.

Not a subject for a hobby site, unless someone is producing a miniatures line.

"As long as Japan does not accept responsibility for the heinous war crimes they committed, I celebrate the fact Japan was hit by two atomic bombs!"

With this logic, every state that has a war criminal (starting a war with a lie, for example) living in peaceful retirement should be bombed with atomic bombs.

State organised rape cannot be condoned.

Augustus,

How on earth do you propose that we should have conducted a war against Japan in 1937? With what? What little we had was frantically trying to re-equip in preparation for the increasing likelihood of a war with Germany – we were hardly going to send it to the other side of a globe to give Japan a slapping (who in 1937 could easily have simply done a 1941/42 to us in return, four years early).

As for Britain knowing about the Final Solution and France allowing Poland to burn… Er, you do know that we declared war on Germany, do you?