"540+ figure French battalion" Topic

Hi everyone,

Here's the prototype battalion for a four battalion brigade I'm working on. It's got 540 figures, and it represents a 750 man battalion- 3:4 figure-to-man ratio, but because the missing "men" are in the gaps between the men that are represented, this means that the units are at 1:1 ground scale. You should be able to zoom in on these photos to see more detail. Photobucket really degrades the quality of pics though…

And here's how the finished brigade will look when its attacking in columns (ACW bases standing in for the Napoleonic ones):

And the classic, if slightly crowded, mixed order:

This is all going to be a part of a set that can function both as game pieces and as a static diorama. After a lot of soul searching I've decided that this is the best way to do 3mm figures and I might as well stop fighting it . The mass effect of the battalion is really something. It's a lot more impressive in person than in pics. The line formation especially looks quite imposing when seen in person. Bear in mind that its as big as a 36 figure battalion in 28mm, which is a very large unit- it's fourteen and a half inches across. I'd love to do a big large Black Powder game with 24 or 30 battalions on both sides, each done like these! I'd only need 30,000 more figs…. which, with a bulk discount, is only $640 USD, which, over the course of a year at least, really isn't too much money…hmm…

Very nice. Always good to see the correct proportions of full strength battalions, lines very long and thin, columns wider than they are deep.

540 men per battalion was actually the average French battalion strength in the field both in the Peninsula and Waterloo campaigns.

Rod

Very good.

Excellent. The only thing I'd done differently are the bases which I consider to thik for such a small scale.

Certainly has the wow factor!

These are amazing. Really incredible.

Thanks for all the compliments! This is just the first of many. My other plan is for a 4:3 cuiassier brigade. There will be four regiments of 288 figs each broken into 4 squadrons of 72 figs. Each squadron will be 2 x 60mm x 40mm bases with two rows of 18 cav. It'll look awesome- there will be over 1000 cav in the brigade.

KaweWeissZadeh- I used to have reservations about the thicker bases but I've got over them. I understand why people are wary of them at first but the thick base is useful for several reasons. First it gives you something to pick them up by- important if you want to do convention games with multiple players. Secondly, the thin litko bases that I've used as an experiment have warped (insidiously over the course of several weeks), so they're out for that reason. Thirdly, if you have a unit that is big enough in surface area it takes the eyes off of the lip to the degree that you don't notice it, especially if you're standing up at the game table and looking at the units from a higher angle. Try it sometime- place a unit on a table, stand up and move around it, and you'll see that the lip doesn't seem to be as big a problem as when you're sitting level with the unit and looking at it head on. I could also flock the edges of the base, which I think will blend it in with the terrain better. Plus when put together as a diorama the larger base will work just as well as a smaller one, since all the gaps will be filled by terrain and skirmisher bases, etc. For gaming, and this is just an idea, but I think I have a way to cheaply and quickly create a terrain mat that perfectly matches the basing I've used on the French battalion seen above. I may try it this evening if I can find the correct materials I'll need today. If it's a success I'll definitely post some pictures. If it's a failure…

I'd consider an even deeper base actually.

deep enough to enable the line of infanry to wheel in place and hit the corner of the line in front of it.

that is, use the base to ensure your columns maintain standard deployment distance.

as it stands, I recon you have pretty much based them on closed column distance.

there is a case to argue on that basis, of moving the figures to the front of the base.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the ten base british though…

"Very nice. Always good to see the correct proportions of full strength battalions, lines very long and thin, columns wider than they are deep."

I'd echo Rod's comment. It's very refreshing to see. Napoleonic warfare was linear and I think our model armies should at least be arranged to suggest this look, as you have done. Great stuff.

Somebody on TMP added the average strength of a French battalion in 8+ major battles over the years. They averaged to 540 men, so I think you are good.

540 figs./btn. is awesome, just awesome

Does anybody else have expereince with litkos bases warping. I was planning on using the thin ones for my bases.

Hi everyone!

Thanks for the compliments! I think that this is definitely the best way to do 3mm. It's $17 USD per battalion, but think that its well worth it.

I'm going to do up a squadron of Carabiniers here shortly. Hopefully by tonight I'll have some pictures to show you. I was going to do Zastrow cuirassiers but the models don't have the side plume so I don't know if it'll work or not…

Keranous- I actually tried basing them up on 60mm squares for that exact reason. The problem is one of showing squares. If you have 6 square bases you can make a hollow square. If you have 6 x rectangles you can. But I agree, and your comment gave me a good idea for the diorama. I think I'm going to add a few bases that will go behind and between the company bases, that will show the musicians, officers, engineers, etc. These could also be used to space out the battalions more. A row of 60mm x 20mm bases for instance would create the perfect deployment distance between the line when in column of attack, giving you a way to differentiate between the two sorts of columns while still having it look good- now try doing that with another scale!

Okay can I get this with the complete Order of Battle for Borodino and Leipzig.

Oh and for Waterloo as well.

That's my plan! Eventually…
I think that good sized club could knock out a complete OOB in two or three months or so if they were all really dedicated. Say you had ten guys doing 2 battalion a week. Thats 80 battalions a month. I just want enough for the fleches and the Great Redoubt!

In terms of basing, could I suggest mounting each company on a very simple, shallow base (possibly only deep enough for the three ranks and supernumaries), then use that as a sabot that fits into a selection of "big" landscaped bases – like the ones you show – which reflect the type/depth of column in which the battalion has been formed? In other words, the depth of the main base and the amount of ground in front of, or behind, the company, reflects whether it is in close column, quarter distance, half distance, open, etc.

If you need enough of them, it might be worth getting a manufacturer to make the different types for you, to your own size specs.

You could also produce a "square" base which would allow you to form the companies in square with the units manning the corners actually in contact, removing the awkward gaps (and footprint distortion) that result from trying to abut the large bases together.

I echo Timmo's comments that this is what Napoleonic units (and indeed all H&M units) really should look like, rather than the misleading distortions – eg columns deeper than they are wide – that have actually given many gamers completely the wrong idea of what a Napoleonic battle looked like.

Supercilious Maximus-

Your idea for sabot basing these guys is spot on, and I had originally gone that way for my ACW stuff. For wargaming that might be the way to go. With this particular project though I need the bases to pull everything together so that they can function as dioramas in a displace case as well as a potential display game. For that purpose a sabot base doesn't quite cut it. My plan is that when the entire French brigade is placed together with the artillery, baggage and terrain pieces it will all fit together as seemlessly as a museum diorama and be as accurate.

At this point though I would be worried about the thin bases warping. The ones I tried were 60mm x 40mm thin Litko bases. They warped by curving in a U with the line of figures in the middle of the U and the long front and back edges curling upwards. Maybe if there wasn't so much base extending beyond the figs the warp wouldn't happen? It only really annoyed me though because it was fine when I did it and only after sitting in a box for several weeks unseen did the warp form…

When I first looked at the title I thought you were mad but the more I look the more I want to have the same.

<<At this point though I would be worried about the thin bases warping.>>

Steel bases? Bit more expensive, but reliable.

Alternatively, do you paint your bases all over (ie bottom and sides as well)?

The diorama idea sounds excellent for showcasing the range.

Supercilius Maximus-

I've thought about steel before too. I've actually used the cardboard packaging that the O8 figs come with and I found that very useful. I've based up to 6 strips in three rows on a 40mm frontage, just enough to hold the bases together and that worked alright with minimum warping. I've got some pictures of them on here somewhere. I've also stuck the bases directly into glue, let them dried and then flocked the edges. That looked alright too. The only thing there is that you need to abut the strips to make it work with no warping, and irregardless of the standard distance between ranks the units look much, much better with some daylight shoting between ranks. If you stick them back to front you might as well not even paint most of the middle and rear ranks.

I'm glad you like the diorama idea- I'm going to try and post some pictures of the much more completed ACW dioramas that I'm working on. It does an excellent job of showing off the mass effect of the figs.

I hope you're circulating your work to battlefield museums and the like – there is tremendous potential for diorama creation for them.

Supercilius Maximus-
Hmm…

Also, as regards painting all over the bases, I assume you mean flocking? The only problem there is that it might actually lead to larger gaps between bases. I need to do an experiment on it though.

Madness !!! This is Madness … :)

Really spectacular…

cheers
Francisco

Today I was thinking about 1-1 Napoleonic battalions in miniature. Coincidence? It does look awesome!

Amazing!! – makes me want to get into 3mm

<<Also, as regards painting all over the bases, I assume you mean flocking?>>

No, not all over flocking. What several persons of my acquaintance have found with MDF and wooden bases, is that if you paint (ie prime) them ALL over – rather than just top and sides – it prevents warping. However, if yours are ultra-thin, this possibly may not be the cure – but worth trying though.